Does it matter if you cycle with lights off or on?
And when should I be adding cuc?
I really appreciate all the advice!
And when should I be adding cuc?
I really appreciate all the advice!
Cycle check up
- Thread starter Markclaster
- Start date
IMO - lights off until you have something that needs light. If you want to see stuff - run lights but limited time and lowest intensity that will allow you to enjoy the tank or see whatever you want to see.
CUC - can add post confirmed cycle - meaning no Ammonia, no Nitrite, some nitrate. And make sure you have food for your cleanup crew - don't throw a ton of snails in a tank with no detritus / algae etc. They'll die and "help" with the cycle.
Have enough pre-mixed saltwater on hand for the first week you add your first animals so you can do a quick water change if you need too (Ammonia spike for instance).
Others here have way more experience than me - but I would throw in a few crabs - hermits or emeralds - but that's because I keep both of those in our tanks. Many people won't have a crab in the tank if they can help it.
After that - or even at the same time - 1 or 2 hardy fish that I know I'll be happy with long term. Again - my personal experience is that clown fish are about as hardy of a fish as there is and just about every saltwater tank ends up with clownfish so, throw a clownfish in along with a few hermit crabs once Ammonia is no longer measurable. Feed lightly - and again, it's just me, but I much prefer feeding frozen foods. Anytime I'm forced to use any pellets or flakes I end up with Cyano.
CUC - can add post confirmed cycle - meaning no Ammonia, no Nitrite, some nitrate. And make sure you have food for your cleanup crew - don't throw a ton of snails in a tank with no detritus / algae etc. They'll die and "help" with the cycle.
Have enough pre-mixed saltwater on hand for the first week you add your first animals so you can do a quick water change if you need too (Ammonia spike for instance).
Others here have way more experience than me - but I would throw in a few crabs - hermits or emeralds - but that's because I keep both of those in our tanks. Many people won't have a crab in the tank if they can help it.
After that - or even at the same time - 1 or 2 hardy fish that I know I'll be happy with long term. Again - my personal experience is that clown fish are about as hardy of a fish as there is and just about every saltwater tank ends up with clownfish so, throw a clownfish in along with a few hermit crabs once Ammonia is no longer measurable. Feed lightly - and again, it's just me, but I much prefer feeding frozen foods. Anytime I'm forced to use any pellets or flakes I end up with Cyano.
thanks for the well thought out reply!
As you are well aware we are trying our darndest to start up a bug free DT. We have over 100 lbs of CaribSea Arag-Alive sand...is that going to be a problem? If so I'm going to return ot all and get dry sand.
What is cyano?
I think you will be ok with the live sand. In my past experience it's not if you get bugs its a matter of when.
It is a bacteria growth
I plan on QT'ing every single thing that I bring in, including CUC. I know nothing is 100% foolproof but I'm (we) are really committed to trying to keep the bad stuff out.
That approach is the best form of attack
In looking closer, it doesn’t have black spots in it.
Bacteria isn't a bug per say. The particular issue I'm describing is strictly with the use of Caribsea Liferock and possibly that specific rock and their sand.
Cyano is short for Cyanobacteria. Cyano is one of the oldest forms of life on the planet and is the reason we have an oxygen rich atmosphere to breathe. There is nothing you can do to keep it out of you system. It will always be there in small amounts. It's when conditions are right for it the bacteria it will start reproducing at a higher rate and form mats on the sand and rock. I believe that at some point we all have to deal with it as we progress from new saltwater aquarists and gain experience in the hobby.
Yes, that does look like what I saw in the past with that rock.
I have a theory that by keeping the Alk low the bacteria with either die off or go dormant allowing the other strains of bacteria to become more dominant.
Unfortunately the only way to keep the alk very low is to not do water changes for a while. At this point your cycle should be about done because you added Biospira. If Ammonia & NO4 are zero and you're seeing higher NO3 the tank is cycled. I would still do a water change at this stage but try to do it with a salt mix that has the lowest amount of Alk in it. Then add your first fish or two. Then hold off doing a water change as long as you can. Beyond that there's nothing more you can do but hope it works. The only other option is a reboot.
This is from a conversation I had over at R2R with Brew and the ARC member.
Guys,
I know Randy says you can't have bacterial consumption of Alk without raising NO3 but I disagree. This seems to impact so few people that I don't think it is worth calling him out publicly but I wanted to share this with you now that I have done more research.
I believe that what you are seeing is bacterial consumption of your Alk and Calc. I also believe that what you are seeing on your rocks is bacterial precipitation of granular calcite. Calcite is the most stable form of calcium carbonate and won't dissolve readily in a weak acid like vinegar.
Here is a reference for you that explains what I believe is happening in your system. It isn't about aquariums but your bacteria may not realize they live in a glass box.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/816102/
Regardless, I think you are on the right path and once you restore your nutrient balance you should start seeing things improve. Let me know if you have any questions.
Guys,
I know Randy says you can't have bacterial consumption of Alk without raising NO3 but I disagree. This seems to impact so few people that I don't think it is worth calling him out publicly but I wanted to share this with you now that I have done more research.
I believe that what you are seeing is bacterial consumption of your Alk and Calc. I also believe that what you are seeing on your rocks is bacterial precipitation of granular calcite. Calcite is the most stable form of calcium carbonate and won't dissolve readily in a weak acid like vinegar.
Here is a reference for you that explains what I believe is happening in your system. It isn't about aquariums but your bacteria may not realize they live in a glass box.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/816102/
Regardless, I think you are on the right path and once you restore your nutrient balance you should start seeing things improve. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks for all of this! So what I’m hearing is my ammonia and nitrites were close to zero about a week ago. Then I added the Biosphera. That added more bacteria to the tank. Once that started working it created more ammonia and thus more nitrites. The nitrites will then slowly become nitrates at the same time decreasing ammonia and the nitrates. I’m thinking like buckets filled from the top and emptied at at the bottom until there’s nothing to go back up to the top (ammonia).This is from a conversation I had over at R2R with Brew and the ARC member.
Guys,
I know Randy says you can't have bacterial consumption of Alk without raising NO3 but I disagree. This seems to impact so few people that I don't think it is worth calling him out publicly but I wanted to share this with you now that I have done more research.
I believe that what you are seeing is bacterial consumption of your Alk and Calc. I also believe that what you are seeing on your rocks is bacterial precipitation of granular calcite. Calcite is the most stable form of calcium carbonate and won't dissolve readily in a weak acid like vinegar.
Here is a reference for you that explains what I believe is happening in your system. It isn't about aquariums but your bacteria may not realize they live in a glass box.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/816102/
Regardless, I think you are on the right path and once you restore your nutrient balance you should start seeing things improve. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks for your patience it’s very helpful because I am trying to learn why it does what it does.
I think you've got the Nitrogen Cycle a little mixed up. The the only way Ammonia goes up is either by aquatic animal respiration or from your additions. Those additions are some food source that is eaten or decays and by directly adding ammonia. Eaten food goes back the the animal respiration.
When the cycle is complete there are sufficient nitrifying bacteria colonies to handle life and food additions. One type of bacteria turns the ammonia to nitrite and the other turns nitrite to nitrate. Both of those do their processes relatively quick once their colonies are built up.
Well, I think it’s about time for some livestock! It’s been almost two weeks with zero ammonia and zero nitrites. Nitrates are 10 maybe a little less. Still no big bloom up of algae. I’m tired of looking at an empty tank
Go for it!
