cycle question

[tgriffin]

I think I am nearing the end of my cycle but have some questions. I put water in April 30th (new Saltwater) and added new bagged live sand a few days later. I threw 3 pieces of dead shrimp in my sump and after about 3 days the wife said they had to go because of the smell!! I yanked them out and went with an another method and did the ammonia method.

http://www.algone.com/aquarium-articles/technical-aquarium-information/fishless-cycling">http://www.algone.com/aquarium-articles/technical-aquarium-information/fishless-cycling</a>


After a couple of days I noticed my ammonia at about 2.5 ppm and continued to follow the directions. My nitrite went up to about 2.0 ppm and now my ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate is about 0. It's hard for me to be 100% with these stupid tests due to me being color blind.

I also added 2 pieces of LR from a friend at the beginning of the cycle. I have taken my time with this tank from day one and don't want to start rushing things. I am doing the cycle with lights out and haven't had any algae bloom. I do seem to have a lot of pods in the tank though.

Anyone think that I may be nearing the end of my cycle as well?

Should I do a water change soon?

Thanks

Tyson

 

[jennm]

Not sure what the purpose of dead shrimp and/or ammonia are in the presence of cured live rock, except to foul the water. That is unnecessary if you're using cured live rock.

If your readings are back to zero, you're cycled. You should have seen or soon will see a diatom algae bloom too. Usually when that happens AND if your parameters dictate, you should be good to introduce a clean up crew at that time, to help clean up the diatoms. After that you can slowly start adding livestock. Emphasis on *slowly*. A fish here, a coral there... keeping an eye on water quality all the while.

I took a look at the article you've referenced. That pertains to freshwater cycling. In freshwater there is no "live rock" although biological media from another established tank would work as well, without fish, and without a stinky mess. We also recommend Seachem Stability if you're concerned about bacterial populations.

The live rock *IS* Mother Nature's filtration media.

Jenn

 

[tgriffin]

Thanks Jenn. I am planning on adding a few frags first and then maybe 1 fish a month or so. I'm still waiting on the diatom bloom. As far as the LR goes I had dry marco rock and then borrowed 2 pieces of LR from a friend to help seed the tank. I was planning on pulling them out when the tank was cycled.

 

[jennm]

My suggestion would be to use Stability and not ammonia or dead stuff. That's Stability's purpose and there's no stink.

Jenn

 

[grayskwerel]

Turn the lights on for 6-10 hours a day and let the diatom bloom begin... gotta have the bloom before you can add a clean up crew otherwise you will have to feed them or they will starve. Good luck with your new tank.

 

[acroholic]

JennM;647874 wrote: Not sure what the purpose of dead shrimp and/or ammonia are in the presence of cured live rock, except to foul the water. That is unnecessary if you're using cured live rock.

If your readings are back to zero, you're cycled. You should have seen or soon will see a diatom algae bloom too. Usually when that happens AND if your parameters dictate, you should be good to introduce a clean up crew at that time, to help clean up the diatoms. After that you can slowly start adding livestock. Emphasis on *slowly*. A fish here, a coral there... keeping an eye on water quality all the while.

I took a look at the article you've referenced. That pertains to freshwater cycling. In freshwater there is no "live rock" although biological media from another established tank would work as well, without fish, and without a stinky mess. We also recommend Seachem Stability if you're concerned about bacterial populations.

The live rock *IS* Mother Nature's filtration media.

Jenn

The purpose of using either dead shrimp or pure ammonia to cycle an otherwise biologically dead tank is to add the daily nitrogenous waste equivalent of multiple fish and corals at once. You do this every day until the biofilter is built up to that point, then you can stock several corals and fish at once.

Tyson's tank is 99% dead Marco rock with a couple pieces of live added. He can either do as you suggest and add one coral of fish at a time slowly, or do an ammonia cycle, adding a set volume of ammonia daily, and stock with more fish when it is complete. The addition of a couple pieces of LR will do nothing but speed up the fishless cycle time. When he stocks after this, he will only be trading one nitrogenous waste source (ammonia) for that of the fish and corals he adds when he discontinues adding amonia after the tank is cycled.

Either method is good and no better or worse than the other. Personal choice, really. Stability would work as well.

In my own case, in my first reef I bought 175# of 3 year old LR from a fellow ARC Member and started throwing fish and corals in imediately. Never had a cycle because I established a fully cured biofilter at the very beginning.

 

[jennm]

My question was somewhat rhetorical - I do know the chemistry. I still do not see the value in fouling the water deliberately. It slows things down, it does not speed them up.

More and more, locally I'm seeing a trend toward intentionally fouling a tank to force an ammonia spike. None is necessary and none will occur if using even a small quantity of live rock, and moving forward slowly when the tank has found its ionic balance.

I just don't understand the thinking. It does work, but it's unnecessary. Most people are in a hurry, so starting off with two steps backwards makes no sense to me.

Jenn

 

[acroholic]

I'm not sure I agree with you on it slowing things down. You prolong stocking times doing it the one fish/coral at a time method. Some Reefers would rather just fishless cycle, then be able to add multiple corals/fish at once. I don't see it as better or worse than any other method, just a different way of doing the same thing. At least both our methods don't use fish.

One's method of choice may have to do with their purpose. A friend of mine wanted to put about 18 discus in a new 125 gallon FW tank. These Discus were specific types and were all coming at once from the same source. He did an ammonia cycle and at the 5 week mark his filters were fully established, and he was able to add all 18 3" fish with no impact on the ammonia established biofilter.

 

[jennm]

Yes, we agree on fishless being best. I'm accustomed to encouraging people to go slowly, not do it all at once.

Still even adding a "bunch" of decaying matter and then waiting for the ammonia and nitrite to return to zero, the bacteria are going to populate according to the available food (waste) so by the time levels return to zero, there will have been a population explosion of bacteria, followed by a die-off... then the remaining bacteria consume the die-off - all that happens during the ammonia/nitrite spike.

By the time it's cycled, there are likely fewer bacteria than there were at the beginning of the downside of the cycle.

Jenn

 

[grouper therapy]

I understood that the reason fish are added slowly is to give the system time to colonize more bacteria so that it can handle the additional bio-load(waste/ammonia). That said would it not stand to reason that adding ammonia sources in larger quantity would prompt a higher concentration of bacteria , thereby speeding up the process?

 

[jennm]

Possibly but I wouldn't gamble it by adding too much at once.

People here are always being scolded for doing too much, too fast.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. There are no shortcuts and no substitute for patience.

Jenn

 

[tgriffin]

Is it possible to not have an algae bloom?

 

[grouper therapy]

I agree to stay on the slow side is better, perhaps the ammonia source adds more runners. I also think that a lot of times when new tanks experience trouble with corals/fish health stems from stocking too fast. Even if the water test fine, what some don't understand is there was/is ammonia present at any giving time in the system and how quickly that ammonia is converted is instrumental in the systems stabilization from a filtration stand point

Edit:

tgriffin;648223 wrote: Is it possible to not have an algae bloom?

Absolutely

 

[tgriffin]

Thanks Dave!

I was going to add a frag first and then one fish and see what happens and then maybe slowly keep adding frags. I doubt I will add more than 1 fish a month

 

[rbredding]

I'd recommend adding your clean up crew first.. letting them work everything over before adding other corals/fish..

 

[tgriffin]

I've got the lights on for a bit to try to get a little bit of algae going for a CUC

 

[smallblock]

Rbredding;648232 wrote: I'd recommend adding your clean up crew first.. letting them work everything over before adding other corals/fish..

plus 1, also they are much cheaper if something goes wrong

 

[rbredding]

tgriffin;648296 wrote: I've got the lights on for a bit to try to get a little bit of algae going for a CUC

My tank cycled for about 4 weeks after my last "Ammonia = 0" test..
the last 3 weeks, I ran the lighting on my planned schedule (about 4 hours in the morning and 6 hours in the evening)..

then I put a CUC in there (easily 40 snails, 30 hermits, 5 shrimp) and fed flakes once a week..

my first livestock went in the tank about 2 weeks later

at that point, I already had coralline spotting up the back of the tank..