Cycling with raw fish/shrimp....debate?

[gnashty]

Here is the topic - talk amongst yourselves....

"There are other methods of fishless cycling being recommended or used however one method being pushed on the internet is the use of Raw Shrimp; however this is a recycled idea (which included the use of silversides, frozen shrimp, and even dead feeder fish) and has reappeared on the internet even though it was debunked in the early 1990s.

I do not recommend this method, not because it does not work for cycling, but because it may also allow a Saprolegnia infection to get started in your new aquarium. Saprolegnia is a mold (often called a fungus) that easily gets a foot hold in decaying nitrogenous matter such as raw shrimp and I have seen this many times in my experiments. Even after the source of Saprolegnia growth is removed, the secondary zoospores which are the primary mode of pathogenic transmission can remain, even after large water changes/vacuumings.
A new tank is the worst time to have a Saprolegnia infection get started as this is when fish are often much less resistant to disease due to the stressor of a new tank environment."</em>

 

[misu]

that's how I started my 65 gal 1.5 years ago, didn't lose one fish.

 

[markl]

pure ammonia is the easiest way to cycles a tank with no live rock.

 

[hn1]

Used that method a few times... I see one potential issue with the above copied statement.... "A new tank is the worst time to have a Saprolegnia infection get started as this is when fish are often much less resistant to disease due to the stressor of a new tank environment."</em>

Yep, fish will die if added too early and should not exist in the same aquarium with a rotting shrimp. Wait to read zeros, remove shrimp, do a large PWC, then add slowly. I have never seen a problem when followed. Not to say that there aren't possibly better ways, just my own experience.

 

[misu]

it was probably over a month between the dead shrimp was removed and the first fish was added.

 

[mapleredta]

I, too, started my cycle with a raw shrimp. I left it in the sump for about two weeks. I HIGHLY recommend you put the shrimp in a mesh bag so it doesn't fall apart when you go to take it out. ( I didn't even think of that when I put it in. ) Also get ready to enjoy the smell!

 

[ichthyoid]

MarkL;547596 wrote: pure ammonia is the easiest way to cycles a tank with no live rock.

+1

Combined with a proven/reliable bacterial supplement is even better-IMHO.

 

[courterbobby]

I think ace hardware sell's 100% pure ammonia, and if i am not mistaken it is the store brand and not a name brand

 

[jennm]

If you use live rock, cured or uncured, you don't need to "add" anything at all, period.

Uncured rock: the die-off and curing process cycles the tank.

Cured rock: if it's been cured and is moved to its new tank promptly, there will be little to no die off. Usually not enough to even register any sort of spike. No spike is necessary - it is *already* cycled. Let the tank settle out, keep an eye on water parameters, I suggest waiting for the diatom bloom before adding any livestock.

There is no reason to force an ammonia spike in the latter scenario. I'm really not sure why people "on the internet" seem to think there has to be. Been doing it this way for 10 years now with the same results.

If there is NO active biological media (IE true FO tank, no LR, LS etc.) then causing something to "rot" is indicated, but that's a whole other issue.

Jenn

 

[markl]

JennM;548745 wrote: If you use live rock, cured or uncured, you don't need to "add" anything at all, period.

Uncured rock: the die-off and curing process cycles the tank.

Cured rock: if it's been cured and is moved to its new tank promptly, there will be little to no die off. Usually not enough to even register any sort of spike. No spike is necessary - it is *already* cycled. Let the tank settle out, keep an eye on water parameters, I suggest waiting for the diatom bloom before adding any livestock.

There is no reason to force an ammonia spike in the latter scenario. I'm really not sure why people "on the internet" seem to think there has to be. Been doing it this way for 10 years now with the same results

If there is NO active biological media (IE true FO tank, no LR, LS etc.) then causing something to "rot" is indicated, but that's a whole other issue.

Jenn

Its to speed the process up .Sure takes the wait time out of cycling a tank.

 

[jase75]

My concern with straight ammonia cycling would be: where does the bacteria come from if you don't have live rock or sand? It may just dissipate or break down on its own, and you really don't get the right bacteria until you start adding livestock. Which is why you gotta go slow then. Same with the shrimp, though that may be a little better since it came from the sea. JMHO, I'd rather seed my tank with the right stuff than hope it shows up on its own.

 

[jef4y]

I'm with Jenn here. When we started all this, I read on ammonia, shrimp/rotting fish, people peeing in their tanks, etc...

We went with fully cured liverock from an established tank. Cost more but basically instant-reef (of course, a little diatom bloom). But I never did experience any type of measurable cycle in the tank.

We still waited a few weeks and then slowly and methodically added some inverts, a few corals, few fish. Waiting a while in between each.

 

[jp30338]

Has anyone ever used pee to get a cycle started? lol:unsure:

 

[jennm]

MarkL;548825 wrote: Its to speed the process up .Sure takes the wait time out of cycling a tank.

Au contraire. It slows down the process. Adding something to rot (be it a shrimp, ammonia, pee, whatever)... adds a sudden, relatively large bio-load to the tank, which is why the ammonia spikes. It takes longer for, let us say, cured rock, to process that and find its equilibrium again, than it would if it were just let to find its equilibrium in the first place, settle out, have a diatom bloom etc.

And JP30338, one of my customers had his son pee in the tank to cycle it. There was a communication error though. The Dad meant he should only go the one time, but the son was peeing in it daily for a week or two. The Dad couldn't figure out why the ammonia kept rising, and wouldn't drop! :lol:

Jenn