Dang Cyano!!

[raisingtwo2006]

Ok, I got a rock with some xenia awhile back.. It had some red algea on it, but silly me though, "Oh, how pretty!" and put it in the tank...

Now, when the red started to spread, I moved the rock. Still very small amount and very pretty red color.

Well, Now it's EVERYWHERE!! Twice I've had to pull out rocks and scrub them down, Twice, I've had to remove and reglue coral because it was being choked by the red monster!! The stuff was growing between my xenia stalks, is starting to cover some zoa polyps, and I think was what led to the demise of one of my kenya trees.

I've searched posts and read about ChemiClean, but no one around here has it.. Petsmart, Petco, Petland... I will check the other two small fish places tomorrow..

Any other suggestions- I cut down on feeding to every other day, cut the lights back to 4 hours total actinic and only 6 hours of daylight, but I'm afraid that my condi and BTA are gonna be mad at me and never settle in one spot.

Suggestions??

 

[roundman]

I used red slime remover by ultralife reef products. You can get it at fish store and more. Cleaned out all of mine with one treatment and 2 days

 

[raisingtwo2006]

I think that's the product they had at Petland.. small bottle, 18.99 The guy was saying to follow the directions EXACTLY!!

Did it hurt any invers/coral of yours??

 

[victor626nj]

waite sam at aquabuys sells chemi clean give him a call but i would start with a large water change first sypon the cyano out it comes off real easy try a big water change first you have alot of phosphate turn your light of for about 24 hours after the water change everything should be fine

 

[krb]

cyano is a big pain in the butt. Multiple big water changes over a few days. Siphon out the cyano when doing the water changes. Cut the lights out for about 30 hrs. straight (I actually put construction paper around mine to make it completely dark). Cut down feeding a bunch (I only feed every two days now). Get a bigger clean up crew. increase flow to eliminate dead spots. run a refugium with macros. run a phosban reactor. It will take a while to completely get rid of. This process eliminates the dosing of chemicals which is a temporary fix. You must eliminate the food source of the cyano to get rid of it.

 

[raisingtwo2006]

Can I use a toothbrush to help scrub out the stuff? I can't get to it with my fingers and it's all around the base of some of the mushrooms/zoas..

How big is a big water change, 20%, 25%?

 

[victor626nj]

you put that in much better terms than me since ii have never had cyano +1 for you lol

 

[krb]

RaisingTwo2006;83938 wrote: Can I use a toothbrush to help scrub out the stuff? I can't get to it with my fingers and it's all around the base of some of the mushrooms/zoas..

How big is a big water change, 20%, 25%?

I used a turkey baster to blast it off of my zoas.

I did three 25% changes over a 5 day period. this was after I got a bigger clean up crew.(look for creatures that eat waste, algae, diatoms, and cyano)

I tried to get set up with what I was lacking and then did the work to rid myself of the bacteria and freshen the water. Basically, give myself a fresh start.

 

[dannybradley]

Petland Dunwoody has Chemi Clean. It should be $14.99 to treat 300 gallons. I've used it many times in reef tanks. I've only ever had it kill a torch on two occasions. Those people did not follow the directions for the followup water change. Call them ahead of time to be sure. 770-396-7358. Ask for Ron or Kevin.

 

[jefft]

Kimberly I have some Red Slime remover if you want it. Its never been opened and less than 6 months old. Let me know when you come through Macon again and you can have it. Jeff

 

[mvm]

You've got to get to the cause of the problem. Why add a chemical to your tank to mask the problem? Obviously, you have excess nutrients in your tank; fuel for the cyano. Turkey baster, less feedings, and water changes will do far more good than chemicals. I used a hose to syphon the cyano out when doing water changes. I left town for a week and found two jawfish and a wrasse missing. they obviously decomposed in the tank causing a cyano bloom. I battled it for about two weeks, but it eventually lost nutrients(massive water changes) and was starved out. Good luck!

 

[dannybradley]

Chemi clean is an organic matter oxidizer. It helps clean up the waste contributing to the growth of cyano, along with eliminating the symptom. It is less expensive than large water changes and less of a shock to the environment. It can actually be used every two months as an effective detritus removal agent.

 

[gwen_o_lyn]

Step back a second- the title of this thread is "dang cyano" and the first post refers to red algae and having to scrub it with a tooth brush. Cyano is a bacteria and it can be siphoned out and is mostly seen on the sandbed with it increasing in amounts towards the end of the light period.

A picture would be helpful, but this sounds more like a type of algae. Most the resolutions mentioned are only bandaids to the problem. You have to tackle the source of the problem to rid excess algae.

Are you using RODI water?
Does your skimmer truly work?
What other filtration methods are you using?

I agree with Flinster- don't add chemicals to your tank. Treat your tank like a small piece of the reef. When there's a problem in the ocean, we go in and clean it up, we don't dump chemicals and hope for the best.

 

[dannybradley]

Gwen, you're acting like I'm recommending a DIY barely tested solution. Chemi Clean is NOT going to harm a reef tank when used properly. I've used it exstensivly over the past 6 years and recommended to countless customers with only two applications causing issue.

It is an organic matter oxidizer. It will chemically combine organics with oxygen, in essenece, causing them to burn. It will reduce the detritus into DOC, which a skimmer can then remove.

It was the thread originator that introduced Chemi Clean to the thread in the first post. I provided a founded opinion based on solid product knowledge and understanding of usage coupled with a stellar track record of treatment. Don't take the high and mighty 'Don't pour chemicals into a reef tank' without researching my claims to a product's safe use and effectiveness.

 

[cameron]

To my knowledge nobody outside of the manufactorer knows what is in the stuff. The common thought is that it spikes a bacteria bloom which eats off the excess nutrients but in turn causes a huge hit on the dissolved oxygen in the system. I am guessing this is why they ask you to run air stones and why skimmers go ape with this stuff. If this is the case, pure sugar would have a very similar effect. Additionally if it is a bacteria bloom, these are getting rather popular in Europe as a way to keep ORP and overall water quality up.

I am against dropping chemicals in a tank when you have no idea what those chemicals are, but this stuff does have a good track record. Course it does have a few horror stories. IMO, you will likely be dosing this stuff again in a month or so since you aren't fixing the problem just masking it temporarily.

 

[mvm]

DannyBradley;84014 wrote: Gwen, you're acting like I'm recommending a DIY barely tested solution. Chemi Clean is NOT going to harm a reef tank when used properly. I've used it exstensivly over the past 6 years and recommended to countless customers with only two applications causing issue.

It is an organic matter oxidizer. It will chemically combine organics with oxygen, in essenece, causing them to burn. It will reduce the detritus into DOC, which a skimmer can then remove.

It was the thread originator that introduced Chemi Clean to the thread in the first post. I provided a founded opinion based on solid product knowledge and understanding of usage coupled with a stellar track record of treatment. Don't take the high and mighty 'Don't pour chemicals into a reef tank' without researching my claims to a product's safe use and effectiveness.

I don't think anyone was criticizing you, just offering a differing opinion. Don't get so upset.:roll:

 

[mvm]

Cameron;84047 wrote: To my knowledge nobody outside of the manufactorer knows what is in the stuff. The common thought is that it spikes a bacteria bloom which eats off the excess nutrients but in turn causes a huge hit on the dissolved oxygen in the system. I am guessing this is why they ask you to run air stones and why skimmers go ape with this stuff. If this is the case, pure sugar would have a very similar effect. Additionally if it is a bacteria bloom, these are getting rather popular in Europe as a way to keep ORP and overall water quality up.

I am against dropping chemicals in a tank when you have no idea what those chemicals are, but this stuff does have a good track record. Course it does have a few horror stories. IMO, you will likely be dosing this stuff again in a month or so since you aren't fixing the problem just masking it temporarily.

DITTO.

 

[linda lee]

KRB;83941 wrote: a bigger clean up crew.... look for creatures that eat... cyano)

Kirk ~ any recommendation on something in particular that especially likes cyano? I've done a brief search, but haven't had any luck.

I already have hermits, nasarius, astreas and nerites* and a rather lazy serpent star.

Thanks!


<span style="font-size: 11px;">*excuse spelling on the snails. Only 1 cup of coffee so far this a.m. and I'm too lazy to look 'em up. Figured you could probably tell which ones I mean.)</span>

 

[dannybradley]

Cameron;84047 wrote: To my knowledge nobody outside of the manufactorer knows what is in the stuff. The common thought is that it spikes a bacteria bloom which eats off the excess nutrients but in turn causes a huge hit on the dissolved oxygen in the system. I am guessing this is why they ask you to run air stones and why skimmers go ape with this stuff. If this is the case, pure sugar would have a very similar effect. Additionally if it is a bacteria bloom, these are getting rather popular in Europe as a way to keep ORP and overall water quality up.

I am against dropping chemicals in a tank when you have no idea what those chemicals are, but this stuff does have a good track record. Course it does have a few horror stories. IMO, you will likely be dosing this stuff again in a month or so since you aren't fixing the problem just masking it temporarily.

I can see why you would think that about this product, and it sounds convincing enough. It is, however, incorrect. I've met the Boyd family of Boyd Enterprises before and asked them specifically about this product. The reason you have a drop in O2 is explained in my last post. It combines organic matter with O2. You learn about a process in elementary science where matter is chemically combined with oxygen. The two combine, and release byproducts. It's called oxidization, only back then, we called it burning. That's where the oxygen is consumed with this process. By providing more availible O2, you increase the effectiveness of this product.

As far as fixing the root of the problem, this is one that has many possible roots, and RaisingTwo gave us a scenario in which his coral is threatened because of the rapid growth of this 'red algae'. This calls for a fast acting solution. Chemi Clean is effective withing 48-96 hours.

All the different routes of reducing organic load of your system are long term fixes. Treating with Chemi Clean is going to fix the problem created by the problem created by the problem. You want a surefire fix for no Cyano? Get a system volume of several hundred gallons, start with 0TDS water, no sand, and stock with one damsel. Feed it every 4 days. There! The root of the problem is solved!

After the second treatment of Chemi Clean, if it is even needed, I typicaly don't see it return. If it does, it's many months later. With the rate it grows, I think it's safe to say that this treatment does effectively eliminate what is feeding cyano.

As far as a bacterial bloom, you would end up with a large NH3/NO2 spike from the large quantity of bacteria dying off when the sugar was consumed. You would also see cloudy water from Nitrosomonos and Nitrobacter feasting on the NH3/NO2. I see the opposite with the use of the product. Clearer water.

 

[dannybradley]

Also, adding a clean up crew to eat the cyano is only going to add a heavier nutrient load to the system. And I agree with Gwen in that it might not be cyano, if physical removal is difficult. Think you can post a pic of it so we can make a more accurate determination?

And Flinster, I'm not upset, just passionate.