Diluting muriatic acid to equal distilled vinegar?

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I use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) to clean out my all plastic water change containers, but I have always used vinegar for soaking pumps. Can you dilute muriatic down to the equivalent acidity of distilled vinegar, or is it something you'd never want to use on a pump or powerhead for decalcification?

And for anyone that gets the idea to use muriatic acid, please research the subject for proper safety and handling procedures. It is dangerous stuff when handled incorrectly.

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The question is why you would want to use it as a substitution. I am not familiar enought with the dilution process to say yes or no, but would think its an unnecessary risk .
 
Muriatic acts much faster than vinegar. It can do in a short time what takes overnight with vinegar.

Edit: Did a bit more Googling. Here is a Reef Central thread on the same topic with recommendations for dilution. Looks like 10:1 is a good place to start.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15966089
 
Yep, a 10:1 ratio is what I use. It's cheaper and works much faster than vinegar, especially for big jobs. You do have to handle with care!
 
Is a very strong acid but DOES A GOOD JOB!! ... Funny because I was actually looking for a thread a while ago, where a reefer has posted some before and after pic after a year and was upgrading something in his system. I was pretty amazed how NEW all his equipment was left after the MA process. I ask him for his dilution he used but can't seem to find the thread now.

I am going to be using the MA as well very soon. I need to clean out my DT, pumps, skimmer, and some power heads. I think the 1:10 ratio MA&water would do the job.
 
I don't quite understand, if you dilute any acid to get to the relative strength of another acid - by default they do the same job in the same amount of time...

Edit: Alcohol, for example.

Drink 1 beer (4.5 vol%) or dilute a shot of gin to 4.5 vol% - you ingested the same amount of alcohol...
 
LilRobb;699255 wrote: I don't quite understand, if you dilute any acid to get to the relative strength of another acid - by default they do the same job in the same amount of time...

Edit: Alcohol, for example.

Drink 1 beer (4.5 vol%) or dilute a shot of gin to 4.5 vol% - you ingested the same amount of alcohol...
Click to expand...

Read the RC thread. it explains about the vinegar having more buffering in it than MA, so it works slower, but longer than MA does.
 
There are 'weak' acids and 'strong' acids, which in chemistry has nothing to do with their dilution, and everything to do with whether they release all of their protons (labile hydrogens, ie-the acid part) in solution (water).

Vinegar, also known as acetic acid, is a weak acid. Muratic, also known as hydrochloric, is a strong acid

Muratic/hydrochloic is a far more reactive acid due to this.

FWIW- hydrochloric acid belongs to the group of 'inorganic' acids also sometimes called mineral acids.

Vinegar/acetic belongs to the 'organic' acids also referred to as carboxylic acids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_acid">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_acid</a>

[IMG]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_acid">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_acid</a>

CAUTION!- when handling strong acids ALWYS pour the acid into water when diluting. Never pour the water into a concentrated acid, it can spontaneously splatter or even explode! They all generate heat when being diluted also. So go slowly.

I have a war story about that which had a bad ending, but I will spare you the details (can you smell burning flesh?).
 
Oh god this is gen Chem all over again for me.

But Bill is right a strong acid is one that looses it hydrogen the fastest.
 
When I clean powerheads, I dilute the vinegar 1:1 with hot water so the entire pump is covered. It takes a while to clean but gets the job done for me.

So if I am reading this correctly, 10:1 MA solution is equivalent to vinegar out of the bottle and I would dilute the 10:1 solution in half again to get the same strength solution I am used to using. Correct?
 
Dilution? Half the time I use muriatic acid, I use it straight up. I've never had a problem on any pump, plastic, acrylic, etc.

Otherwise, I just pour some in a bucket of water. If you're worried about exact ratios, you're really over thinking it.

I will note that you don't want to do it in a stainless steel container. My kitchen sinks are a constant reminder of that - they're discolored now...
 
Schwaggs;699351 wrote: When I clean powerheads, I dilute the vinegar 1:1 with hot water so the entire pump is covered. It takes a while to clean but gets the job done for me.

So if I am reading this correctly, 10:1 MA solution is equivalent to vinegar out of the bottle and I would dilute the 10:1 solution in half again to get the same strength solution I am used to using. Correct?
Click to expand...

That sounds right to me. First time I used MA it cleaned the WC container in about 3 minutes with no scrubbing, one of those "why haven't I been using this from the beginning?" moments. Prior to that I used vinegar and a lot of elbow grease.

Just do not use it indoors.......handling instructions recommend a breeze or fan blowing the fumes away from your outside location.
 
Dave, I used muriatic all the time to clean calcium precipitate from my hot tub back in WI (we had RIDICULOUSLY hard water) when it would get out of whack (before I started filling it with soft water). A good friend who is a chemistry professor recommended a 5% solution of muriatic acid. It worked INCREDIBLY well. If I were to use it on anything reef oriented I'd start at a 5% solution and work slowly from there if it wasn't to my satisfaction.
 
Would MA work on glass? I need to clean my UV sleeves badly and usually use Vinegar and alot of elbow grease and a razor blade. If MA would make short work of that I would try it...
 
gnashty;699648 wrote: Would MA work on glass? I need to clean my UV sleeves badly and usually use Vinegar and alot of elbow grease and a razor blade. If MA would make short work of that I would try it...
Click to expand...

Yup- glass isn't affected by MA.
 
Just to keep this simple-

A 5% solution of muriatic will blow the doors off of 5% vinegar on calcium deposits!

You can buy MA at Home Depot/Lowe's, in the paint department.

Wear rubber gloves and goggles when handling MA. (It can blind you if splashed into the eys)

ALWAYS pour the acid into the water, when diluting it (never the other way around).

A 5% solution is made by adding 1 part MA to 19 parts of water. As MOJO mentioned, precision is not required. You will throw it away in the end.

Protect metal plumbing. This is still a strong acid. We don't want to see DIY threads for replacing your drains and pipes. You can neutralize it using baking soda, after use. Baking soda can also stop burns immediately if you happen to spill any MA on your skin.

One advantage of MA I had not thought of before, it is actually less likely to attack adhesives than vinegar. The reason is that both vinegar and adhesives are (generally) both organic compounds. Like dissolves like.

I have heard people mention problems, especially with Koralia's, from soaking in vinegar. Apparently it can dissolve the impeller adhesive causing the shaft to spin and no water movement. Using MA will likely not cause that.
 
Also note that it will etch concrete; if you've ever epoxy'd your garage floor, this is the stuff you'd use to clean and dissolve the top layer of concrete.

The best place to handle it is outside on the ground. Just make sure kids / pets can't get into it.
 
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