DIY Saltwater

[rbredding]

ichthyoid;628486 wrote:
FWIW- The Georgia Aquarium uses Instant Ocean sea salt. I think there may be reasons why, and they would have EVERY reason to explore alternatives

awesome.. didn't know that...

 

[acroholic]

Here is a thread I started last year about this very same subject. It has some information you might want to see. Ultimately, I decided it was not worth the trouble when I could buy it myself.

 

[tony_caliente]

Not an answer to the original question, but 28 years ago, I knew a very successful reefkeeper that collected his own seawater off the New Jersey shore (yes, we are land-locked for all intents and purposes). He hauled close to 100 gallons of "crude" natural seawater in his truck. He then used a diatom filter to clean it and that was it. He maintained a beautiful, well-stocked reef aquarium for many years.

 

[ichthyoid]

Acroholic;628498 wrote: Here is a thread I started last year about this very same subject. It has some information you might want to see. Ultimately, I decided it was not worth the trouble when I could buy it myself.

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44090&highlight=salt">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44090&highlight=salt</a>[/QUOTE]

Thanks again Dave. Below is a quote from you that sums up what I found-

"Total cost (approximate, and shipping charges not included) about $80 for enough chemicals to make about 200 gallons of seawater."

That's about double what we can buy IO for.

 

[rbredding]

Acroholic;628498 wrote: Ultimately, I decided it was not worth the trouble when I could buy it myself.

^^ this statement said all there is to say..


if Dave can accomplish what he does without mixing his own salt, then none of us need to..

 

[grouper therapy]

Rbredding;628476 wrote: the difference is that inventions take time/money/effort to perfect..

I'm not saying that someone shouldn't give it a try.. but (for lack of a better term) an amateur chemists will spend more money perfecting something than professional chemists..

if you're doing it to create a better product... have at it..

True but how did he become a professional chemist?

Edit:

+1

I looked into this back when I worked in R&D. Even with the input of professional chemists, some of whom were close friends, I could not come close to the price of a bag of IO salt. Your time is worth something, as is the equipment that you need, including a digital scale. The scales have come down a lot since then, though.

You can buy the chemicals, cheaply</em> I guess. I looked into reagent grade because I cared about what my fish got and it was available. I did not search for commodity grade chemicals, for the same reasons. The price does come WAY down when you buy in bulk. However, I did not want to start a salt business just to save a few bucks.

FWIW- The Georgia Aquarium uses Instant Ocean sea salt. I think there may be reasons why, and they would have EVERY reason to explore alternatives.

In the end, the juice was not worth the squeeze! (or the risk)

-JMHO

I don't think that is a valid argument. An example In the cabinet business if your volume of work is low and you don't have the tooling or need to make the doors it is cost effective to outsource them. In the mid range if so equiped and capable it is not cost effective in some cases tp outsource as it takes almost as long to place the order and pick it up as it does to build the doors. In a larger shop(production setting then it is cost effective due to the volume and thereby a price break. My point is that there is can be a range of need that may justify diy vs. outsourcing. I can promise you the GA. aquarium doesn't pay retail as you and I do .

Edit:

Acroholic;628498 wrote: Here is a thread I started last year about this very same subject. It has some information you might want to see. Ultimately, I decided it was not worth the trouble when I could buy it myself.

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44090&highlight=salt">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44090&highlight=salt</a>[/QUOTE]
I have since found some other sources and have reduced the cost substantially.

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;628531 wrote: Thanks again Dave. Below is a quote from you that sums up what I found-

"Total cost (approximate, and shipping charges not included) about $80 for enough chemicals to make about 200 gallons of seawater."

That's about double what we can buy IO for.

total cost (approximate, and shipping charges not included) about $80 for enough chemicals to make about 200 gallons of seawater.

<u>After the initial chemical purchses, then a guesstimate of about $11 per 200 gallons of mix after that based on 40# bag NaCl purchases and incremental use of the other supplies, which could be cheaper based on larger weight purchases of Bulk use ingedients magnesium Chloride and Sodium sulfate.
</em></u>This followed that quote.

 

[rbredding]

grouper therapy;628570 wrote:

the difference is that inventions take time/money/effort to perfect..

I'm not saying that someone shouldn't give it a try.. but (for lack of a better term) an amateur chemists will spend more money perfecting something than professional chemists..

if you're doing it to create a better product... have at it..

True but how did he become a professional chemist?

My intent was to illustrate that more than likely he had an extensive knowledge of the components of seawater and their interaction on a chemical level, or had working experience with aquaria on a technical level. He wasn't "googling for directions" in order to hit the percentages/components accurately so he could save $30/bucket

grouper therapy;628570 wrote: I don't think that is a valid argument. An example In the cabinet business if your volume of work is low and you don't have the tooling or need to make the doors it is cost effective to outsource them. In the mid range if so equiped and capable it is not cost effective in some cases tp outsource as it takes almost as long to place the order and pick it up as it does to build the doors. In a larger shop(production setting) then it is cost effective due to the volume and thereby a price break. My point is that there is can be a range of need that may justify diy vs. outsourcing. I can promise you the GA. aquarium doesn't pay retail as you and I do .

I can promise you that if the GA aquarium thought they could do better or cheaper, they would develop their own salt and sell it as "the same stuff our walesharks drink"..

 

[ichthyoid]

Grouper, go for it man. I hope you are successful. I looked into it and could not make it for what I can buy it (without buying barrels). Maybe you can.

FWIW-
The guy that started Kent Marine worked in R&D at Georgia-Pacific (I was at another company). He also happens to be a Chemical Engineer. He bought the barrels and re-packaged kalk, bicarb, iodine, etc., etc. and made millions!

 

[acroholic]

Check out this website: http://www.gettankedaquariums.com/">http://www.gettankedaquariums.com/</a>

This guy sells his own brand of salt. He is not a large manufacturer, just someone that does it himself. He is a hoot to talk to on the phone. Has his own definite ideas of husbandry. I have purchased mag chloride and calcium carbonate from him before.

Another reason I decided not to make my own salt was that some of the chemicals in the reference recipe I was using are health hazards, strictly regulated, and hard for an individual to buy. Not saying they can't be safely worked with, but I chose not to.

 

[ichthyoid]

BRS is another 'Repackager Gone Wild'.

This ain't rocket science folks.

(...and I've met rocket science)

 

[jeffh]

While

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;628593 wrote: Grouper, go for it man. I hope you are successful. I looked into it and could not make it for what I can buy it (without buying barrels). Maybe you can.

FWIW-
The guy that started Kent Marine worked in R&D at Georgia-Pacific (I was at another company). He also happens to be a Chemical Engineer. He bought the barrels and re-packaged kalk, bicarb, iodine, etc., etc. and made millions!

That is the key. My usage rate justifies that amount. lol I understand that it is not for everyone. You are right on with it not being that complicated.

 

[ichthyoid]

As for the Georgia Aquarium using Instant Ocean, I will bet lunch at the Buckhead Diner that this is more an arrangement of convenience for them both, than anything else.

1) The GA Aquarium gets the salt either-
-A) at ridiculously low cost, or

-B) free, or

-C) maybe even gets paid by IO to use it

and

2) IO gets-
-A) to say the GA Aquarium uses their stuff (promotion), and maybe

-B) a write off to boot!

 

[cwarmouth]

A volunteer there told me they buy 1000 pallets of IO at a time.

 

[brian carter]

almost all the big aquariums use instant ocean

Edit: i agree it could be used as a write off as well

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;628593 wrote: Grouper, go for it man. I hope you are successful. I looked into it and could not make it for what I can buy it (without buying barrels). Maybe you can.

FWIW-
The guy that started Kent Marine worked in R&D at Georgia-Pacific (I was at another company). He also happens to be a Chemical Engineer. He bought the barrels and re-packaged kalk, bicarb, iodine, etc., etc. and made millions!

That is the key. My usage rate justifies that amount. lol I understand that it is not for everyone. You are right on with it not being that complicated.

 

[ichthyoid]

CWarmouth;628700 wrote: A volunteer there told me they buy 1000 pallets of IO at a time.

brian carter;628711 wrote: almost all the big aquariums use instant ocean

Edit: i agree it could be used as a write off as well

...and likely option 1) A, above applies (ridiculously low cost)

I'm an old process engineer. The saying in business is that "volume cures all ills". Meaning if you sell/make enough of something, then nothing can prevent success/profit.

FWIW- We Americans got incredibly good at usurping natural resources to that end. We can make things like nobody else. Now we have taught the rest of humanity to do the same.....but I digress.

 

[danielll]

grouper therapy;628668 wrote: That is the key. My usage rate justifies that amount. lol I understand that it is not for everyone. You are right on with it not being that complicated.

If you can get your salt mix working, I would buy water from you instead of the lfs. I only take like 15 gallons a week, but ill pay ya the same so might help to offset the costs if you wanted.

Edit: not to hijack, but if i were to purchase a 250 gallon tank, and drive down to the coast, and fill it up, it would be enough water for like 16 weeks, but how long would that keep?