Does anyone use Metal Halides anymore?

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darren24

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I am setting up a new tank (60G Rimless) and need to decide on lighting. I have had tanks for 10+ years and have used all types of lighting (CF, T5, LED, LED / T5, Metal Halide) and the best color and growth that I got was from my older tanks that used Metal Halide. I was considering just using a small pendant with a 150w Phoenix or Radium bulb. Thoughts?

On another note I saw a tank with a "Kessil Tuna Blue" light that I liked. If anyone has this light and would give some feedback I would appreciate it. :)
 
Darren24;1045031 wrote:
On another note I saw a tank with a "Kessil Tuna Blue" light that I liked. If anyone has this light and would give some feedback I would appreciate it. :)
Click to expand...

I use 2 Kessils on a 57 rimless and I think they're great. Is it a 60 cube that you're putting these over? I'm not sure I would like them as much if I was only using 1.
 
After waiting for almost 10 years for LED prices to come down to a point where they will pay for themselves over using halides......

Im still using halides.

They simply provide better light, and even with electricity and bulb replacement they are still cheaper to run.

IMO as long as you can deal with the heat there is no better lighting than halides with LED actinic supplements.

I actually ran a 150w phoenix on my 15 gal and a 400w on my 58 gal back in the day. Worked amazing!
 
EnderG60;1045035 wrote: even with electricity and bulb replacement they are still cheaper to run.
Click to expand...

That can't be true.

The cheapest MH fixture I can find is $120 and then the bulbs are $50/year. I've factored in electricity costs based on $0.12/kW (average for Atlanta) and a 10 hour/day schedule. For the record, i'm ignoring additional costs on AC from the heat that would be generated, ignoring the additional costs of making more water from the higher evaporation, ignoring anything you have to do to keep the tank temperature down and I'm also assuming your ballast is running at 100% efficiency (it's not).

In this example, I'm comparing 1 150W MH to 1 a360W Kessil LED. From what I've seen from PAR meters, they are comparable.

MH startup = $120
Year 1 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 2 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 3 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 4 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 5 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 6 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 7 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 8 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 9 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 10 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill

Kessil startup = $400
Year 1 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 2 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 3 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 4 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 5 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 6 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 7 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 8 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 9 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 10 = $3.24 energy bill

10 years of MH = $674.00
10 years of LED = $432.24
 
PLENTY of people use halides.

I actually almost went that direction with a new setup but settled on cheap LED lights (that are proving to be pretty great actually for growing sps).

I figured out the cost of new lamps x2 every 6 months, then the cost of electricity.... the leds quickly made more economical sense .

_2 x lamps = $200 x2 (for a full year = $400)

LED from OceanRevive = $150 x2 to cover a 4x2 tank = $300

And that just the cost of the lamps vs fixtures... add MH Ballasts and the difference in cost...

IM NOT trying to sell anyone on LED, but the numbers made sense to me.
 
The killer on mh for me is not the electricity the mh pulls itself, but the huge toll it takes on the home AC to deal with it all.
 
I run mh and leds. I started my sw venture with mh and pc and had great growth. I fell into the led fad after seeing a few led lit tanks. I bought cheap leds and after 2 years I started having led bulb failures. I'm handy with electronics and replaced my drivers and leds with the same reef breeder uses. After I went to sps dominant, imo some acros look better under t5/ halide, while others look great under led. So I opted for both. I think it's really difficult to measure kw consumption based on day to day outside Temps which would also affect the electric bill. With led only the heaters will need to run, with halides not as much but still needed. With today's technology with leds they can and will grow corals. It's the dialing in to what's appeasing to YOU.
 
Crew;1045043 wrote: That can't be true.

The cheapest MH fixture I can find is $120 and then the bulbs are $50/year. I've factored in electricity costs based on $0.12/kW (average for Atlanta) and a 10 hour/day schedule. For the record, i'm ignoring additional costs on AC from the heat that would be generated, ignoring the additional costs of making more water from the higher evaporation, ignoring anything you have to do to keep the tank temperature down and I'm also assuming your ballast is running at 100% efficiency (it's not).

In this example, I'm comparing 1 150W MH to 1 a360W Kessil LED. From what I've seen from PAR meters, they are comparable.

MH startup = $120
Year 1 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 2 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 3 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 4 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 5 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 6 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 7 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 8 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 9 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill
Year 10 = $50 bulb + $5.40 energy bill

Kessil startup = $400
Year 1 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 2 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 3 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 4 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 5 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 6 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 7 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 8 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 9 = $3.24 energy bill
Year 10 = $3.24 energy bill

10 years of MH = $674.00
10 years of LED = $432.24
Click to expand...

By your numbers the power consumption alone would $54 per month.
(E</em>(kWh) = P</em>(W)× t</em>(hr) / 1000) It cost $1.80 per hour to operate. Atlanta is operating on roughly 11.8 cents per kilowatt hour.
 
Once I went Radions I never went back to MH again. If you want a true replacement for MH you need to go high end on the LEDS. Even a Kessil 360WE Tuna won't put out the same power as a MH. Or any of the cheaper Chinese brands for that matter. We are slowly swapping all of our service reef tanks from MH/T5 to LED. Mainly using Radion or Kessil. Also keep in mind lots of people that don't like LEDs were discouraged by the acclimation process from MH to LED. They were impatient or having trouble with coral dying and gave up to go back to MH. Your coral have to completely convert over to the new light.... which can take months for them to fully acclimate over. Also on that line of thinking keep in mind that more and more coral farms and growers are moving over to LED... so it will be harder and harder for the consumer to convert the coral over to older MH lighting on their end, same thing with many LFS.

The regular Gen 3 Radions are equal to a 250watt MH. Most people are comparing MH to weaker LEDs like Kessil/AI/Razer. MH lots of times also forces you to use a chiller, house costs more to cool down via AC, and what gets me the most is evaporation because I hate using lids/tops because they just get in my way =)

Jakub
 
Acandoit;1045048 wrote: Curious about this because I run MH

I think you may have meant the $5.40 and $3.24 to be monthly amounts, yes?

From a break even perspective, it looks like somewhere near the end of year 4 you are at about the same amount for LEDs or MH, ($555 vs $585).

Even though LEDs are supposed to last a loooong time, I don't know a lot of people that keep lights 4+ years. Still feels like MH are more expensive due to the side effects of heat.
MH
$234.80
$350.60
$467.40
$585.20
$704.00
$823.80
$944.60
$1,066.40
$1,189.20
$1,313.00

LED
$438.88
$477.76
$516.64
$555.52
$594.40
$633.28
$672.16
$711.04
$749.92
$788.80
Click to expand...

There is zero question, MH are far more expensive to operate. MH has a cheaper entry point, but will cost you a lot more in the long run. Where as LEDS have a much higher entry point cost intially but it's downhill from there.
 
aXio;1045069 wrote: Once I went Radions I never went back to MH again. If you want a true replacement for MH you need to go high end on the LEDS. Even a Kessil 360WE Tuna won't put out the same power as a MH. Or any of the cheaper Chinese brands for that matter.

The regular Gen 3 Radions are equal to a 250watt MH. Most people are comparing MH to weaker LEDs like Kessil/AI/Razer .
Click to expand...

I'm confused by these statements. "Even a Kessil 360WE Tuna won't put out the same power as a MH" Are you refering to Wattage(Power consumption) or another form light measurement?

"Most people are comparing MH to weaker LEDs like Kessil/AI/Razer" Weaker in terms of what? I'm confused?
 
Sn4k33y3z;1045072 wrote: I'm confused by these statements. "Even a Kessil 360WE Tuna won't put out the same power as a MH" Are you refering to Wattage(Power consumption) or another form light measurement?

"Most people are comparing MH to weaker LEDs like Kessil/AI/Razer" Weaker in terms of what? I'm confused?
Click to expand...

Way too many variables to truly compare any light to another light. While wattage isn't really the main/only factor in good a LED, Radion uses true 4+ watts per LED node. Most LED brands barely get past 1-2watts per LED node. This does make a difference in par/spectrum penetration. But so many other things come into play such as color combination (which Radion also has arguably the best color combination in the new Gen3s), Lens/Reflection technology, control-ability, etc. But in any case which ever form of measurement you want to use Radion will beat all other LEDs (As far as I know). Weather it's wattage, Par readings, light spread, etc...
 
Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg
alt="" />
 
aXio;1045074 wrote: Way too many variables to truly compare any light to another light. While wattage isn't really the main/only factor in good a LED, Radion uses true 4+ watts per LED node. Most LED brands barely get past 1-2watts per LED node. This does make a difference in par/spectrum penetration. But so many other things come into play such as color combination (which Radion also has arguably the best color combination in the new Gen3s), Lens/Reflection technology, control-ability, etc. But in any case which ever form of measurement you want to use Radion will beat all other LEDs (As far as I know). Weather it's wattage, Par readings, light spread, etc...
Click to expand...

and thus price :)
 
If i had your tank ii would use 250w se 14k or 20k radiums if your into more of a blue look with two reef brite strips or ati 8bulb fixture
 
aXio;1045069 wrote: Once I went Radions I never went back to MH again. If you want a true replacement for MH you need to go high end on the LEDS. Even a Kessil 360WE Tuna won't put out the same power as a MH. Or any of the cheaper Chinese brands for that matter. We are slowly swapping all of our service reef tanks from MH/T5 to LED. Mainly using Radion or Kessil. Also keep in mind lots of people that don't like LEDs were discouraged by the acclimation process from MH to LED. They were impatient or having trouble with coral dying and gave up to go back to MH. Your coral have to completely convert over to the new light.... which can take months for them to fully acclimate over. Also on that line of thinking keep in mind that more and more coral farms and growers are moving over to LED... so it will be harder and harder for the consumer to convert the coral over to older MH lighting on their end, same thing with many LFS.

The regular Gen 3 Radions are equal to a 250watt MH. Most people are comparing MH to weaker LEDs like Kessil/AI/Razer. MH lots of times also forces you to use a chiller, house costs more to cool down via AC, and what gets me the most is evaporation because I hate using lids/tops because they just get in my way =)

Jakub
Click to expand...
I have to respectfully disagree with the wattage of cheaper leds. Reef breeders leds use 3 watt bridgelux and many of our members here use them with great success. Hanija (spelling) has one of the best looking led lit sps tanks imo. I think the radions are to powerful for the beginner. I'm not saying they aren't great lights. They are wonderful if your wallet can take the punch. I personally would go with orphak over radion.
 
Under cheap led lighting when first placed

f3a65c7d7796ac2c161576ee6d696458.jpg
alt="" />


Under same lighting with 7-8 months growth

70b9614ce8a909f0d40fdeee74f2b601.jpg
alt="" />

And this was grown under cheap leds before placing halides back into play. Lighting is just one part of the equation. But to answer your question Darren, most everything on the market will do what you want it to. It comes down to preference of what your going to be able to afford and enjoy.
 
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