So next problem, how do I start lowering the salinity without shocking the current inhabitants? I also have a tiger tail cucumber (which i'm pretty sure split in half, unless it is the length of my whole tank now), sea hare, and several crabs/snails. Don't know if that changes the analysis...
fish keep dying
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I wouldn't lower the salinity of your current tank. Your best option is a QT tank where the salinity matches the stores, and you can raise the salinity over a few weeks to match the tank's level and monitor the fish for any diseases or do preventative treatments.
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Well, there are members here who have offered QT services. I even gave away a full QT setup at the last meeting I was at (granted it was an offer for members only).
Optimal for a reef is 1.0265 (35ppt), but for a FO can be lower, like around 1.021
Optimal for a reef is 1.0265 (35ppt), but for a FO can be lower, like around 1.021
I personally would think it's your acclimation procedure....QT setuos aren't very expensive....all you need is a 10g tank....a HOB filter and a small heater....and some PVC cut pieces....(for the fish to hide)...I personally don't have a QT and have only lost one fish....(he jumped out before I made my mesh top)....not saying you don't need one....they are a great thing to have....how are you acclimating the fish?.....and the nitrates aren't to high....for corals they are but not for fish.....weekly WCs will help alot with nitrates....
At first, I was just floating them for 30 min or so because I believed someone that the only thing they needed to get used to was the temp. Obviously never went back there for advice... Since then, I've set up a drip acclimation method with an airline tube, letting it go for about an hour (guessing it should drip for longer). I'm always a little worried about my dog jumping up on the table for a seafood snack...but she's been good so far!
Acclimation is only a drop in the bucket of reasons to quarantine fish. Dripping them is an acceptable method of acclimation.
BUT...
If you think QTing them is "a lot of trouble", wait until you try to catch one or more sick fish out of a reef tank so they can be treated in a hospital tank that you don't have. That's not a fun day.
BUT...
If you think QTing them is "a lot of trouble", wait until you try to catch one or more sick fish out of a reef tank so they can be treated in a hospital tank that you don't have. That's not a fun day.
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My nitrates have been that high with SPS in the tank. I 120% agree with John!!!
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Although I agree with all the above comments (except your nitrates.....20 is fine), do any of your current fish have any white spots, black spots, mucus, white scales, or any other than normal discoloration or symptoms?
QT is the way to go.........it'll suck if you buy a fish with a disease AND all of your fish die....
QT is the way to go.........it'll suck if you buy a fish with a disease AND all of your fish die....
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Want to be clear that I am not saying go ahead and have N03 of 20 but that wont kill a fish! You really should QT just as everyone has said! Coral will do better if you get the nitrates down.
Good luck and happy reefing!
Good luck and happy reefing!
Geting the number down will definitely only improve your setup so still work on that with smaller more frequent wate changes.
Acclimating I would drip for 2 hours until the water is purely new and at the numbers as your display and quarantine setup. QT for a few weeks to monitor the fish. A qt tank is the best tool you can have next to a quality test kit in my opinion
Acclimating I would drip for 2 hours until the water is purely new and at the numbers as your display and quarantine setup. QT for a few weeks to monitor the fish. A qt tank is the best tool you can have next to a quality test kit in my opinion
Well I respectfully disagree that "most LFS" have high nitrate and low specific gravity...I suppose some might. I will agree that some of us keep FO systems' SG lower than 1.024 (my own target is 1.023, reef and FO). A 0.01 difference isn't that significant, IMO. (OP did not buy fish from me - just illustrating an example).
Either way 20 ppm nitrate won't be an acute cause of death, but it is at the upper end of safe in a reef. Long-term exposure to higher nitrate in fish will erode their gills and shorten their lifespan.
Please describe more about how long they are taking to die. Days, weeks? Do you see aggression from the other fish? Are the dead, dying or disappearing? If you're finding bodies, is there any evidence of disease? White spots, red lesions, etc?
Are the eating in the store before you buy them? Do you see them eat? Do you know how long they've been in the store?
It's always a good idea to ask to see a fish eat in the store before it's bagged up. If it doesn't eat, leave it there until it does.
Newly arrived fish are more likely to succumb to shipping stress and disease, so knowing these things and seeing them eat, dramatically increase their likelihood of surviving long-term.
The only thing that jumped out at me in the description of your system, is the possibility of low dissolved oxygen. A canister filter does not permit gas exchange. The skimmer might have helped a bit, but depending on which model if it's the smaller model, the Prizm is not large enough to contribute significantly to oxygen exchange.
Do you have any powerheads in the tank? Or anything to increase agitation at the surface to promote gas exchange?
8 fish in the system isn't necessarily "too many" but if oxygen is low, they begin to compete for available oxygen, and could be too many if there isn't enough gas exchange happening, and the fish that aren't used to less O2 in the water are suffocating. Typically the larger fish will suffer first in low oxygen, but any of them could be having trouble because of this.
Sleeper gobies (sand-sifters) are also prone to intestinal worms - if they live a few weeks, eat seemingly well but get skinny and die, that's worms and they should be quarantined and de-wormed prior to introduction to the display, particularly if the seller doesn't routinely de-worm them. Even then, they can become re-infested, so prophylactic treatment isn't a bad idea.
It could be you've had several "causes of death" depending on the fish, just throwing some ideas out there.
I would recommend increasing water movement, regardless, if you don't have some powerheads or something to increase surface agitation, you should probably take care of that.
Jenn
Either way 20 ppm nitrate won't be an acute cause of death, but it is at the upper end of safe in a reef. Long-term exposure to higher nitrate in fish will erode their gills and shorten their lifespan.
Please describe more about how long they are taking to die. Days, weeks? Do you see aggression from the other fish? Are the dead, dying or disappearing? If you're finding bodies, is there any evidence of disease? White spots, red lesions, etc?
Are the eating in the store before you buy them? Do you see them eat? Do you know how long they've been in the store?
It's always a good idea to ask to see a fish eat in the store before it's bagged up. If it doesn't eat, leave it there until it does.
Newly arrived fish are more likely to succumb to shipping stress and disease, so knowing these things and seeing them eat, dramatically increase their likelihood of surviving long-term.
The only thing that jumped out at me in the description of your system, is the possibility of low dissolved oxygen. A canister filter does not permit gas exchange. The skimmer might have helped a bit, but depending on which model if it's the smaller model, the Prizm is not large enough to contribute significantly to oxygen exchange.
Do you have any powerheads in the tank? Or anything to increase agitation at the surface to promote gas exchange?
8 fish in the system isn't necessarily "too many" but if oxygen is low, they begin to compete for available oxygen, and could be too many if there isn't enough gas exchange happening, and the fish that aren't used to less O2 in the water are suffocating. Typically the larger fish will suffer first in low oxygen, but any of them could be having trouble because of this.
Sleeper gobies (sand-sifters) are also prone to intestinal worms - if they live a few weeks, eat seemingly well but get skinny and die, that's worms and they should be quarantined and de-wormed prior to introduction to the display, particularly if the seller doesn't routinely de-worm them. Even then, they can become re-infested, so prophylactic treatment isn't a bad idea.
It could be you've had several "causes of death" depending on the fish, just throwing some ideas out there.
I would recommend increasing water movement, regardless, if you don't have some powerheads or something to increase surface agitation, you should probably take care of that.
Jenn
Thank you everyone for all the responses, I'm learning a lot very quickly!
As far as powerheads go, I have a HK 3, and a Maxijet1200 on opposite ends of the tank. Also, the return from the Eheim waterfalls onto the surface of the water for additional agitation.
Looks like I DEFINITELY need to get a QT asap. I have noticed that my mandarin goby has some white spots on his fins, but he is as active as ever and eating just fine. Still, its an area of concern. All other fish are doing fine with no visible spots or marks. So would you suggest putting all the fish in the QT or just one at a time or what?
As far as powerheads go, I have a HK 3, and a Maxijet1200 on opposite ends of the tank. Also, the return from the Eheim waterfalls onto the surface of the water for additional agitation.
Looks like I DEFINITELY need to get a QT asap. I have noticed that my mandarin goby has some white spots on his fins, but he is as active as ever and eating just fine. Still, its an area of concern. All other fish are doing fine with no visible spots or marks. So would you suggest putting all the fish in the QT or just one at a time or what?
Also, I have not seen alll the fish eat in the store, but I have been buying them from Aquarium Warehouse and really trust the guys up there. They have been so helpful to even get me to the stage I'm at now.
All of the fish that died have just disappeared, with no bodies to be found. I do have a lot of rocks and caves, as well as a good amount of hermits, two cucumbers, and a mean blenny that will eat anything it sees so they could have devoured them quickly...
All of the fish that died have just disappeared, with no bodies to be found. I do have a lot of rocks and caves, as well as a good amount of hermits, two cucumbers, and a mean blenny that will eat anything it sees so they could have devoured them quickly...
Hmmm well it might not be any of the above then. You may have a predatory crab or mantis shrimp that's taking them at night.
That's a whole other ball game.
I learned a while back to ask whether they disappear or die - huge difference there.
Jenn
That's a whole other ball game.
I learned a while back to ask whether they disappear or die - huge difference there.
Jenn
Clicking - rapid fire clicking or just a single click? Mantis usually click several times in succession, pistols usually just click once at a time.
That might explain why "new" fish are disappearing... did the Naso disappear too? That's a big fish even for a mantis to take down.
If the tank has been set up for a year, and the mantis was tiny when it hitched a ride in, it may have been too small to take any fish down, but they discovered its presence and stay away from its lair. It can feed by scavenging til it gets some size on it, or take down small prey like snails/hermits until it gets big enough to go for larger quarry.
New fish don't know it's there or where it is - and they may be choosing the wrong hidey hole at night - too close to the mantis, and POOF - easy prey for the mantis.
I've seen this happen before (spearing mantis - no clicking) - we didn't find the culprit until we helped the owner move the tank and the mantis dropped out of the rock into the water in the bottom of the bucket during the move.
You can trap a mantis - I have a mantis trap that is out on loan right now (you could borrow when it comes back) or you can make one by taking a soda bottle, cutting the funnel end off, inverting it and siliconing it back into place. Bait it, and hopefully the mantis will enter the bottle to take the bait and not find its way back out - sort of like a crab pot or lobster pot.
Like this:
http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackage/images/trap.gif" alt="" />
Jenn
That might explain why "new" fish are disappearing... did the Naso disappear too? That's a big fish even for a mantis to take down.
If the tank has been set up for a year, and the mantis was tiny when it hitched a ride in, it may have been too small to take any fish down, but they discovered its presence and stay away from its lair. It can feed by scavenging til it gets some size on it, or take down small prey like snails/hermits until it gets big enough to go for larger quarry.
New fish don't know it's there or where it is - and they may be choosing the wrong hidey hole at night - too close to the mantis, and POOF - easy prey for the mantis.
I've seen this happen before (spearing mantis - no clicking) - we didn't find the culprit until we helped the owner move the tank and the mantis dropped out of the rock into the water in the bottom of the bucket during the move.
You can trap a mantis - I have a mantis trap that is out on loan right now (you could borrow when it comes back) or you can make one by taking a soda bottle, cutting the funnel end off, inverting it and siliconing it back into place. Bait it, and hopefully the mantis will enter the bottle to take the bait and not find its way back out - sort of like a crab pot or lobster pot.
Like this:
http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackage/images/trap.gif" alt="" />
Jenn
I've only heard it a few times, and it was one loud click. I found the Naso in the back of the tank and had to move a few rocks to get him out. It looked almost as if he was stuck in between them?? I'll try out the trap asap, what should I use as bait??
One thing I just remembered, when I bought my original 30g from a guy, he said he would hear clicking at night as well. That was last February, so this little guy has been growing for almost a year and a half now! Should I move all my fish over to a QT tank and try to battle this guy alone? Take some rocks out?
One thing I just remembered, when I bought my original 30g from a guy, he said he would hear clicking at night as well. That was last February, so this little guy has been growing for almost a year and a half now! Should I move all my fish over to a QT tank and try to battle this guy alone? Take some rocks out?
