Fish store fish quarantine

[korkus]

I have been off and on in the hobby since the mid-80s. My last tank crashed after 8 years about 6 years ago and I stopped since I didn't have the time. I have now built up a new system and have been going around to LFS to see which ones I prefer.

After talking to a lot of them most don't really do much of any quarantine. Some just dump them directly into display tanks. The longest I heard was 5 - 7 days to make sure the fish eat. This was a surprise since the old favorites would quarantine for longer. Some have closed and the ones still around stopped quarantining for a long time.

I have worked for many ecommerce sites and understand that livestock gross margin is razor thin due to death in transit, shipping conditions, and just look of the fish (ugly fish end up having to go on sale). Is it because it just cost too much? I know the internet retailers have to be putting an extreme amount of pressure on stores to lower their profits to compete.

Also the big hobby site's forum members act like this is scandalous. They also quarantine themselves even after they expect LFS to do so.

I was just interested to hear what others in my region thought about this. Do many of you just get Internet livestock now that you are forced to quarantine anyway? Do you not quarantine and just hope for the best (I have seen my fair share of total devastation from disease).

 

[mvm]

SEA Atlanta.

 

[jmike50]

+1 with 2ruble...QUARANTINE! for at least 30 days. I learned the hard way.

 

[korkus]

I am cycling my QT now. I am just surprised that the fish stores are more becoming a middle man. With they need to quarantine anyway it will be hard for them to have value add over the internet. I can appreciate the knowledge they bring, but the internet and ARC has that.

I want to support the local businesses as much as anyone else. I also can appreciate they sponsor the ARC, but are the rest of the forums lying when they seem to get better service from their LFS in different regions?

I will say Pure Reef, which is a little drive from Acworth, was quite helpful and felt like the staff was not looking to just sell fish.

 

[jennm]

We quarantine for 5-7 days - if the batch of fish has no apparent problems, they are offered for sale and moved out to the retail system.

I don't know what other stores' procedures are, I can only speak for our own procedures.

If any of the fish in the batch shows a problem, the whole batch is treated and kept in quarantine until such time as we're comfortable that the problem has been addressed.

Having said that, quarantining a group of fish in a retail setting, is not the same as quarantining an individual or pair/group of fishes in a hobbyist setting.

There's no guarantee that you'll never wind up with a sick fish, whether it has been held for days in advance, or not. Typically issues show up within the first 72 hours of arrival, but not always.

In my hobbyist days, I saw stores that sold "right out of the box", or the fish barely spent an hour in the store's sell systems fresh out of the box. Makes me cringe. I suppose it's OK if the buyer quarantines, but most still don't. Most don't quarantine until AFTER they get wiped out.

Most hobbyists buy one fish at a time or a pair (or a group - ie anthias). Quarantining individually provides extra precaution against introducing a contagion.

It has nothing to do with internet sales etc. There are some internet sellers who are merely drop-shippers - you place your order and your fish are picked from a faraway wholesaler.

IMO there's more risk with dealing with internet sellers - you can't SEE the fish first, you can't see its tank-mates, you can't see what sort of system it's in - you're taking it on faith that it's healthy. IMO that's more of a gamble, not less.

Jenn

 

[ralph atl]

MvM;845509 wrote: SEA Atlanta.

Sea Atlanta......:up:

extensive QT.......

 

[korkus]

Jenn you are the one store I didn't get to talk to. I went with my wife to your store but I did not get a chance to ask you about your quarantine.

I do agree that seeing the fish in the tank does help with color. Like you said though I saw 2 store drop fish right out of the shipping box into display tanks and put prices up. I have also seen a couple stores that have some really sick fish that they don't move out of a populated tank. I was told at 1 store that they run meds in the water and the really sick fish wouldn't be contagious to the other fish so they don't need to move them to another tank. The other fish were picking at it.

I know that live aquaria and the others drop ship most of the livestock from the collection warehouses, but isn't that the same place most of the fish stores in the area get their fish? I was told that their is several dealers that LFS get their supplies from and after years of dealing with them they know which species those dealers are good at acquiring and shipping.

I don't want to sound negative at all. I am just trying to get a handle on how things operate now. I definitely appreciate you insight. I am really going on what several fish stores have told me and what other bug hobby forums are saying is the norm in their region.

 

[jennm]

Yes some stores get their fish from those same 104th St. wholesalers in L.A. Not all do. Point being, buying sight unseen from facility not necessarily disclosed, is a bigger risk.

Even when wholesalers have medication protocols, if they "turn and burn", the fish aren't there long enough to benefit from treatment if it's needed.

It's a little bit like a game of "hot potato".

Jenn

 

[ralph atl]

I would not buy anything alive (except cuc) that doesn't QT......and Kevin at Diver's Den also has extensive QT.................

 

[totalchaos13]

I QT every fish I buy no matter where it comes from. I also proactively treat all tangs with copper for three weeks.

Doing this used to annoy me, buying something and then not getting to put it immediately on display so now I actually have my QT tank done up nice and simple in my bedroom. It's really nice to have a more intimate first month with each fish.

 

[ryansg1986]

If you want QT fish, go to SEA Atlanta, they QT for 2 weeks minimum. Did you go there?

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Very good points here. I believe in buying from quality dealers, and if they QT, that is an added perk, and very commendable.

That being said, I am a very strong believer in AT HOME QT for several reasons. We have all hit the number one benefit here in regards to treating for disease. There is, however a tangent benefit that is another big reason that I QT. When I bring my fish home I place them in my QT tank to not only observe them for disease, but, also to see what foods they respond to, and get them used to feeding what I will be able to provide before placing them in the DT. If a newly acquired fish is not used to what you feed your other fish, they will often time have a hard time getting fed adequately in the DT while they compete for food with other fish that are used to eating. Also, often times, fish will hide for a few days when newly introduced, and are only eating if food drifts into it's hiding spot. QT will give you a chance to get the fish eating, and recover from the shipping process, while allowing you to monitor it's diet, and digestion in addition to monitoring for disease...

Best of luck all!!!

 

[silver surfer]

2 weeks isn't long enough for qt.

 

[sn4k33y3z]

Pure reef also has a very nice QT setup. In-fact they utilize two QT systems. One for non-reef safe and their reef safe fish.

 

[grouper therapy]

It depends on what one's definition of quarantine is. A medicated system with 100 fish in the front and another medicated system 20 feet a way in a separate room with a 100 fish in it is not quarantining . It is a chance to observe before selling.

 

[jennm]

quar·an·tine

/ˈkwôrənˌtēn/
Noun
A state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed.

Verb
Put in quarantine.

Synonyms
isolate



Seems to fit the definition to me.

 

[grouper therapy]

JennM;846015 wrote: quar·an·tine

/ˈkwôrənˌtēn/
Noun
A state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed.

Verb
Put in quarantine.

Synonyms
isolate



Seems to fit the definition to me.

So any system besides the one you are putting them in is a quarantine. Actually that would define all systems.

 

[jennm]

Well, at the hobbyist level, someone who puts a fish in a "quarantine" tank before entering into the display, fits the definition.

Similarly, a commercial entity that puts a batch of new arrivals into a quarantine system before mingling them with fish from other batches (that previously went through a similar protocol), also fits the definition - at least as I see it.

As I stated before, an individual quarantining an individual new fish (or pair/group) before adding it to their display is a more thorough procedure than, say, a store, that quarantines in batches (such as we, and others do).

Am I missing something here?

 

[rdnelson]

What is fast? Is 55 mph fast? Or is 120 mph fast? On a bicycle 55 is fast but not in a BMW. My point is, what are you trying to accomplish? Want to make sure a new arrival is healthy and eating before mixing with other fish or do you want to treat for some sickness?


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[grouper therapy]

JennM;846023 wrote: Well, at the hobbyist level, someone who puts a fish in a "quarantine" tank before entering into the display, fits the definition.

Similarly, a commercial entity that puts a batch of new arrivals into a quarantine system before mingling them with fish from other batches (that previously went through a similar protocol), also fits the definition - at least as I see it.

As I stated before, an individual quarantining an individual new fish (or pair/group) before adding it to their display is a more thorough procedure than, say, a store, that quarantines in batches (such as we, and others do).

Am I missing something here?

Not at all. I am a large advocate of a quarantine process in all systems. While I think it is a fantastic idea for LFS to quarantine/isolate I do not think that individuals should for go their own quarantine protocol either especially since the procedure is usually done in large batches prior to there obtaining the fish.

Edit: Sound like we agree.

Edit: What happens if the new batch is infected on the LFS level, is the whole system treated?