Focusing on the BIG 3

geno

Member
Market
Messages
443
Reaction score
0
I read an article recently that really stressed focusing on the BIG 3 elements for successful reef keeping:
1. pH
2. Temperature
3. Salinity

The author made a really great point regarding how the novice (me) is often enticed by the 'extras' such as CA, UV, etc. when they would be much better off to invest in a quality chiller (for example) to properly maintain temperature. I finally did something right and didn't even know it :up:

For what it's worth, he claimed that every tank crash could be traced back to the failure of properly maintaining each of the BIG 3.

Just wanted to share something that might make life a little less stressful -- I mean this hobby (like most) is supposed to be enjoyable and rewarding. Focusing on the BIG 3 and KISS principle is working for me.
 
DISGAREE!!

Calcium not important in reefkeeping??!! I would also argue that for any of those figures, stability would be infintiely more important than the empirical values.

And, anyone who says a chiller is a critical piece of equipment is wrong. I hate misinformation in this hobby.
 
hogwash! That is totally wrong. sorry.

stability
Alk
Calcium
nutrient export
flow
mag
lighting

temp should be reasonable
salt is well salt

I've never had a chiller

never crashed my tank either.

I would say over auto dosing, & poweroutages cause more crashes
 
I read a similar article somewhere onboard of Delta (go figure)

And I think the OP didn't just make the intention clear - it said that the BIG 3 need to be kept stable and you won't have problems.
It didn't say it will be the holy grail of all tanks.

You can have the best system of em all, if your temp swing 4 degrees you've already lost.
If calcium swings that much, you might see issues with growth - but certainly no deaths.

It was aiming at the average reefer, not someone like Joe, Dave or Jeremy.

So please take it with a beer - the article was stating that but it was not in "Advanced Reefkeeping" or something but a family magazine trying to get some interest for new people to the hobby.

Robb
 
power outage=temp=crash (a chiller won't help much though)

autodosing stuck on=ph or salinity= crash (but preventing the ATO, or dosing system from overdosing is the key, not checking ph......unless it's your ph probe hooked to a reefkeeper that shut's down reactor, now we are talking)

it just doesn't make sense to me, but.....................whatever.
 
Wow -- didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess some folks are more sensitive than others.

Barbara, thanks for your comments. As always they were tactful and appreciated.

Below is the article I read and the author. Perhaps he doesn't contribute to the more sophisticated reef journals -- however, I thought he made worthwhile points. Maybe I did a poor job of summering his article.

<u>Mark Martin on the Big Three</u>
Salinity, pH and Temperature in the Reef Aqaurium
In a reef tank, the big three—
• Salinity,
• Temperature and
• pH—
Are far more important than in a fish-only system, but every aquarist should shoot for stability in these three parameters. Every single tank crash in the history of aquaria has been a direct or indirect result of a lack of stability in one or all of the big three. It is funny when you think about—there are just three parameters you really need to watch, and yet so many people simply don’t. I mean, sure, it is important to look at nitrates and calcium in a reef tank, but if you ignore the big three long enough, it does not matter if you have 500ppm calcium or 0ppm nitrates. The tank will eventually crash. So what can you do today to get the big three taken care of? Read on.
Use a Chiller, Heater and Controller to Maintain Temperature Stability in a Reef Tank
Temperature stability is essential to a reef tank. Fluctuations in temperature of only a few degrees every 24 hours creates environmental stress for your animals. The stress, while perhaps not deadly in and of itself, will, over time, make your animals more susceptible to disease and infestation. Instead of dumping money into expensive nitrate reactors or calcium reactors, most beginning reef aquarists would derive far more benefit by buying a chiller. Using a quality chiller in conjunction with a heater and a reliable controller will insure minimal temperature fluctuation in your aquarium.

Keeping Salinity Stable in a Tropical Marine Aquarium
In a reef or invertebrate tank, many of the animals are particularly sensitive to changes in salinity. Falling behind on topping-off your aquarium with freshwater can cause the salinity to increase gradually. While this usually does not present a huge problem, when you suddenly “catch-up” with tank maintenance, and replace five, ten or more gallons of freshwater all at once, the salinity drops back down to normal levels but much too quickly for many inverts. Investing in an automatic top-off system can make all the difference in terms of keeping your tank’s salinity stable.




Dealing with pH Fluctuations
A normal daily cycle of pH fluctuation occurs in most aquaria secondary to the lighting schedule. While this is not a disaster, in most cases, the savvy aquarist can easily stabilize this parameter by simply installing a refugium that runs on an alternate light cycle. Keeping the refugium lights on when the display tank’s lights are off will insure a more stable pH over an entire 24-hour period.

Install a Chiller, Automatic Top-Off and a Refugium Today!
New reef aquarists, like all aquarists, should focus first and foremost on the big three: temperature, salinity and pH. Investing in a chiller, an automatic top-off system and a refugium can go a long way to creating a stable reef environment that will quickly mature into a full-blown reef aquarium.
 
jmaneyapanda;371998 wrote: And, anyone who says a chiller is a critical piece of equipment is wrong. I hate misinformation in this hobby.

Really? So letting a tank swing back & forth from 77°F at night to 84°F during the day is acceptable? I guess I'm wrong for thiking marine life appreciates a water temperature that doesn't fluctuate 7 degrees every 24hrs.

Get T5s!
Put fans all over your tank!
Lose the canopy and let light spill all over the room!

Thank you, but no thank you. With my setup, a chiller IS a critical piece of equipment. Same for lots of tanks out there.

-Dustin
 
Does this guy sell chillers, ATOs and Refugiums?

While I don't disagree that the "big three" are important, chillers, ATOs and Refugiums aren't the only way to maintain these parameters.

Even tanks with Refugiums can experience pH fluctuations - I don't really thing a refugium has much "buffering capacity"...

Yes, those parameters are important - nobody will dispute that...

But to use the author's own logic...

You can have a tank with pH rock solid at 8.3, temp rock solid at 78 and specific gravity of 1.24, but if the nitrates climb off the charts of most test kits, you're *GOING* to have problems, period. I've seen that happen too many times to count.

Jenn
 
RedEDGE2k1;372087 wrote: Really? So letting a tank swing back & forth from 77°F at night to 84°F during the day is acceptable? I guess I'm wrong for thiking marine life appreciates a water temperature that doesn't fluctuate 7 degrees every 24hrs.

Get T5s!
Put fans all over your tank!
Lose the canopy and let light spill all over the room!

Thank you, but no thank you. With my setup, a chiller IS a critical piece of equipment. Same for lots of tanks out there.

-Dustin
NONSENSE. Fans work just as well, if not better than a chiller. You saying "Thank you, but no thank you" says it all. Fans will work work fine, but you CHOOSE to not use them.

As I CLEARLY stated, stability is important. I NEVER said fluctuation of temp is OK. If youre gonna TRY to attack me, at elast eb accurate.

The only systems that I would state chillers are essential on, are coldwater systems. Plain and simple.
 
Jeremy - I don't know that I'd swing that pendulum the other way either. It just depends on the tank... lighting, pumps, ambient room temperature and a variety of factors can cause a tank to overheat. I have put chillers on tanks where we tried a variety of fans and other ventilation devices to cool it that few critical degrees and either it doesn't cool sufficiently, or the temperature swings.

There are so many tanks sizes and equipment configurations - it is an unfair assessment to state that coldwater tanks are the only ones that *require* a chiller to maintain a constant and appropriate temperature.

Jenn
 
Properly placed fans can cool water enormously. That is the physics of the atter. I would gladly go into it if someone needs.

As I mentioned, I HATE misinformation in this hobby. And here, an apparent retailer has made the claim that "chillers are critical pieces of equipment to run a reef". That is BS, through and through.
 
Another fact of the matter is that some folks don't want a bunch of fans. Fans also fail more often than chillers do.

We are arguing something that is not an absolute. "What people want" is a variable that neither you, nor I, nor anyone can define.

Adding fans will also drastically increase evaporation - that's what the fans do to cool. Using that argument, it's a "selling point" for an ATO :)

I agree that the article comes off like a sales pitch for ATOs, chillers and refugiums... and I agree that they aren't essential equipment across the board, but I will stand by my statement that each system is different, and there are plenty of instances when a chiller is considered "necessary" to maintaining a constant temperature. Your definition of "necessary" and mine (or someone else's) may differ somewhat - but it is what it is.

In these cases, a chiller is a benefit to the system, and certainly not a detriment. It's one of the many choices that hobbyists have available to them, to make their experience easier.

Surely you would agree that using those choices to the best of one's ability, in order to provide the best possible environment for the creatures one keeps, is a good thing, wouldn't you?

Jenn
 
I agree with Jenn on the topic of temp. There are too many configurations to make a blanket statement that you do or don't need a chiller.

I tried fans on my 125 and just could not keep the temp in line. The room has high ceilings, the MH lights produced too much heat, etc. Thus, relying on the central AC wasn't doing the job.

You know, if the author is just plain stupid -- criticism might be warranted. However, I don't think he made any erroneous statements. In general, all his recommendations are sound. You may or may not elect to adopted them -- but slamming the guy seems a bit unfair.
 
Geno - while the author makes some good points about the importance of pH, Specific Gravity and Temperature, those are not the ONLY things that can contribute to all tank crashes as he has stated.

I think the article might have been a bit more well received if he hadn't made it such a black-and-white issue.

As I mentioned, nitrogenous waste issues contribute to a large amount of problems, and yes, even crashes. Even if temp, pH and SG are right on the money, it doesn't matter if the nitrates are insanely high. The damage done by high nitrates can result in gill damage to fish, which shortens their life expectancies, as well as other problems.

Now - a refugium *may* help with that - but he didn't even touch on that in his article.

It came across as a sales pitch masked as "gospel" - for me that's what left a bad taste in my mouth.

Jenn
 
Jenn- yes I would. Which is EXACTLY why claiming a chiller is necessary is misinformation. It is no different than claiming fans are "necessary". It's bs to make that claim in an article.
 
Well - at least we see eye to eye on something today :)

I guess we all missed the disclaimer that the article is the author's opinion.

:D

Jenn
 
jmaneyapanda;372098 wrote: Properly placed fans can cool water enormously. That is the physics of the atter. I would gladly go into it if someone needs.

I understand evaporative cooling and the tremendous amount of heat it can remove from water.

If you've ever read through my tank build thread (see link below) you know I campaigned hard for the "fans only" idea during my build process and for the first year the tank was up & running. I had a 6" KingAir fan in the canopy blowing across the display as well as another 6" fan in the sump blowing across the water as it cascaded down my sump baffles. Those two fans worked to bring my high temperature of 84°F down to around 81°, which was of course acceptable. However, eventually those fans corroded/shorted out and I had to buy new ones at $25 a pop. I did this a couple times. I tried the plastic non corrosive fans, but they were too small to make any difference in my tank temperature.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499&perpage=25&pagenumber=1">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1213499&perpage=25&pagenumber=1</a>

I understand that I could place the fans such that they suck in fresh air and blow it into the canopy/sump area, rather than placing the fan inside the setup and having it suck/blow salty air (leading to corrosion of the fan). However, doing the former would require me to cut big ugly holes into what I consider to be a very beautiful peice of furniture. I'm not going to ruin the look of my setup by doing that. Of course, this is my choice, and as a result a chiller IS a critical piece of equipment with my setup.

My point is you can't lump all reef setups into one and expect everyone to take the same approach. Tanks have unique needs in many regards.

[QUOTE=][B]jmaneyapanda;372093 wrote:[/B] If youre gonna TRY to attack me, at least be accurate. [/QUOTE]

You think I'm attacking you? How, because I disagreed with what you said, or at a bare minimum we were arguing semantics?
Dustin
 
Yes I do, based on our history and you related and correlated actions. You know what I'm talking about too.

The chiller is your CHOICE. You don't want to use fans. So be it. Just don't write articles stating that chillers are critical pieces of equipment then. It is your choice, not a necessity for all.
 
Back
Top