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franciscosalazar

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It's no secret new guys are intimidated to post questions for fear of being shredded for their misstep.
It sucks seeing threads spin out of control with personal insults that would never be uttered face to face.
I hope to create a healthy discussion regarding abuse by some users, members and even site officials.
How do we curb malicious posts on this site and truly enhance the camaraderie we all envision?
 
I've viewed a thread or two like that.

My limited experience is that some folks get offended when they get an answer they don't want to hear. 3 tangs in a 30? Bad idea. Of course, sometimes the message can be delivered a little more bluntly than is required.
 
Wouldn't a person's insult - assuming it was intended to be one - the insulter's issue?
That is how I chose to look at it. Having said that I have never been insulted in my 4 years as a member and several months as a non-member. And I have presented some questions that I should have known the answers to or I could have looked them up by doing a simple post search. Someone was always patient and tolerant enough to answer my question or point me in the right direction. I even threw in a my share of low-ball offers and been told so -I don't see it as my problem. I think we may hear or interpret a response with a tone that we have ascribed to it which was not the person's intention at all. I hope you continue to ask whatever is on your mind and enjoy the fellowship and experience of this community For what it's worth :-). Happy posting.
 
I see less and less of this. When I first joined it seemed to happen more often but the mods were pretty quick to address it. While serving as a mod, there were many other issues I had to deal with in a higher frequency.

When it comes to taking a thread off topic I am probably the biggest offender. If that upsets you I a sorry. I believe that through my lame attempts at humor, more people join in and it helps to enhance the community. But at times I go too far.

If you find someone posting things that are upsetting to you or to others, I would suggest a simple request be made asking them to stop. If that does not work it only takes a second to hit the report button. Our current mods are pretty darn good at defusing tough situations.


ARC....so nerdy our President breaks bones while bowling. :-)
 
First and foremost the stupidest ?? Is the one not asked.

The worst by far is the one asked over and over. Or the one where the person never searches and asks and then sits just waiting for the answer.

This one sided communication can be meant one way and perceived another. And instead of clearing the air and making sure the way it was meant was the same as it was taken. They rather get their panties all bunched and lash out.

sent from my Atari 2600
 
A couple points from my own observation...

Only about 7% of communication is the words, themselves. So forums have a disadvantage of missing the other 93% (tones, inflection, gesture, etc...).

That having been said...

I see new people get ripped to shreds far too often (not just here).

Someone gets their new tank, gets it set up, gets their first fish, and then learns that there are other people who have fish tanks, and talk about it, and they're told that it's a great place to ask questions...

...and then they ask the question... and they get a bunch of "you should have known" or "how dare you" or "a simple search would have shown you, you moron!" type answers.

Yes... The answers are "correct," but not very helpful or encouraging to a budding hobbyist.

"Hey, a lot of people ask that same question. Here's a link to some great answers: www dot link. It happens a lot when several people have the same question at different times, so we have a great search feature where you can type in your question and maybe be able to get your answer more quickly"

Vs...

"Why don't you do a search before asking the same question that's been asked 5,000 times?"

I talk with hobbyists every day... and I hear why they don't join the club... and this sort of thing is part of the reason.
 
It's unfortunate if you've had that sort of reaction. In my experience, it's not 'typical'.

Nobody should be intimidated to ask even the most elementary question. There will always be someone (like me) who is willing to give a respectful answer.

Those who hurl insults, should just move on without answering and let somebody with more patience and tact, answer.

If you've experienced flames, you can use the little "report post" feature: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif" alt="" /> Click that under the user/member profile to the left of your screen, on the offending post. A dialog box will appear and you can state the problem, click send and it will report the post to the moderating team, who will then be alerted to take a look and if necessary, take action.

Our mission here is to educate. Yes, you can probably find many (most) answers by a search, but I've found the search feature to be somewhat awkward at times. And if everyone found their answers by search, there would be almost no discussion except for for sale/wanted threads.

And yes, sometimes people receive the answers they need to hear, not the ones they want to hear, and that doesn't necessarily mean that the person responding was mean - even though it can be interpreted that way at times. But yes, I've seen a few "flamethrowers" over the years. It's not who we are, and it shouldn't be how we roll.

Jenn
 
Also some keep asking until they hear the answer they wanted in the first place.



sent from my Atari 2600
 
Dave Green;910252 wrote: A couple points from my own observation...

Only about 7% of communication is the words, themselves. So forums have a disadvantage of missing the other 93% (tones, inflection, gesture, etc...).

That having been said...

I see new people get ripped to shreds far too often (not just here).

Someone gets their new tank, gets it set up, gets their first fish, and then learns that there are other people who have fish tanks, and talk about it, and they're told that it's a great place to ask questions...

...and then they ask the question... and they get a bunch of "you should have known" or "how dare you" or "a simple search would have shown you, you moron!" type answers.

Yes... The answers are "correct," but not very helpful or encouraging to a budding hobbyist.

"Hey, a lot of people ask that same question. Here's a link to some great answers: www dot link. It happens a lot when several people have the same question at different times, so we have a great search feature where you can type in your question and maybe be able to get your answer more quickly"

Vs...

"Why don't you do a search before asking the same question that's been asked 5,000 times?"

I talk with hobbyists every day... and I hear why they don't join the club... and this sort of thing is part of the reason.
Click to expand...

And

Edit:
JennM;910254 wrote: It's unfortunate if you've had that sort of reaction. In my experience, it's not 'typical'.

Nobody should be intimidated to ask even the most elementary question. There will always be someone (like me) who is willing to give a respectful answer.

Those who hurl insults, should just move on without answering and let somebody with more patience and tact, answer.

If you've experienced flames, you can use the little "report post" feature: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif" alt="" /> Click that under the user/member profile to the left of your screen, on the offending post. A dialog box will appear and you can state the problem, click send and it will report the post to the moderating team, who will then be alerted to take a look and if necessary, take action.

Our mission here is to educate. Yes, you can probably find many (most) answers by a search, but I've found the search feature to be somewhat awkward at times. And if everyone found their answers by search, there would be almost no discussion except for for sale/wanted threads.

And yes, sometimes people receive the answers they need to hear, not the ones they want to hear, and that doesn't necessarily mean that the person responding was mean - even though it can be interpreted that way at times. But yes, I've seen a few "flamethrowers" over the years. It's not who we are, and it shouldn't be how we roll.

Jenn[/QUOTE]


These two quotes express my feelings exactly. In addition, for the new person asking the question that has been answered a 100 times, it will sometimes be their introduction to the club. I have met many wonderful people just because they asked one of these questions and I took a little extra time to answer. Those people later remember that and want to take part in discussions with me. In addition, the first person to ever comment on my first thread is now someone I consider as a dear friend. Holley and Hal are people I love to see at any function. She made me feel welcome on the forum and at my first meeting.
Click to expand...
 
Before this thread becomes a game of pointing fingers and calling specific users out, I request that all posts be of constructive nature. What ever happened to, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"?
 
franciscosalazar;910260 wrote: Before this thread becomes a game of pointing fingers and calling specific users out, I request that all posts be of constructive nature. What ever happened to, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"?
Click to expand...
:confused2: I don't understand, all the post agree with your statement and the only names mentioned were in a positive light.
 
grouper therapy;910277 wrote: :confused2: I don't understand, all the post agree with your statement and the only names mentioned were in a positive light.
Click to expand...

I am facilitating this conversation preemptively. I've noticed that threads go downhill fast when boundaries are omitted.
 
franciscosalazar;910282 wrote: I am facilitating this conversation preemptively. I've noticed that threads go downhill fast when boundaries are omitted.
Click to expand...
My bad. I guess the purpose or spirit for which post are made can be misinterpreted very easily.:)
For example words can be omitted that would have explained the intent.:)
Edit:
franciscosalazar;910260 wrote: J<span style="color: Red">ust as a reminder</span> Before this thread becomes a game of pointing fingers and calling specific users out, I request that all posts be of constructive nature. What ever happened to, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"?
Click to expand...

Edit:
franciscosalazar;910260 wrote: Before this thread becomes a game of pointing fingers and calling specific users out, I request that all posts be of constructive nature. What ever happened to, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"?
Click to expand...
Does this protect the ones who are saying the bad things?
 
I'll post here (not that it was required), as the devil's advocate.

I've been in many forums, but none quite like this one. We, as a community</em>, seem prone to drama and especially sensitivity. There are a hell-ton of smart members here, but there are also some that repeatedly make foolish mistakes and then don't like if/when people tell them about it.

No one deserves to be insulted, so lets get that straight. Given proper context however, not every post or question can be met with gentle hand holding either. This works somewhat the same in real life. Growing up, if you repeatedly asked your teachers to help you with your mistakes, but were too hard headed to learned from them or take their instructions, they would begin to get frustrated as well.

Again, no one should ever be insulted here. But similarly, sometimes folks should not have paper thin skin either.
 
Although this is a "private" club the "public" forum is not and although closely moderated it cannot control the the way everyone responds to a question. Condescending remarks are offensive and are here occasionally but as Jenn stated not typical. If someone has had that happen to them here and chose to ignore the rest of the helpful answers or advice then perhaps a " public" forum is not the venue for their questions. We are dealing with each other here and none of us are perfect. There is also the ignore button as well.
 
So in short

It Hurst when I do this!
So, don't do it....


sent from my Atari 2600
 
franciscosalazar;910228 wrote: It's no secret new guys are intimidated to post questions for fear of being shredded for their misstep.
It sucks seeing threads spin out of control with personal insults that would never be uttered face to face.
I hope to create a healthy discussion regarding abuse by some users, members and even site officials.
How do we curb malicious posts on this site and truly enhance the camaraderie we all envision?
Click to expand...
What do you propose?
 
In regards to the searching function, yes, it can be extremely handy.

One of the sites I most frequently direct people to, has a similar requirement before contacting their very knowledgeable staff:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm</a>

Again, devil's advocate here (also again, not that anyone asked me). But there is a bit of due diligence advisable as well.
 
When I was new to this and other reef forum type websites, I started using the Search function and using Google, etc, because no one was answering my posted questions quickly enough. I soon realized I could answer many of my questions this way, and I still search out answers this way today before I post.

One other point of this is that you may get nice answers from some and nasty from others, but due diligence is required from the Reefer. You don't know if the advice/answers you are getting is good or not.

A big problem with Reefing as a whole is that many of our so called accepted truths are nothing more than myths perpetuated and regurgitated on forums like this one. I attribute this to a lack of pure scientific research available to us at this level, and Reefers, unfortunately, have to rely on anecdotal evidence to make any progress in some areas of this hobby.

My halide bulbs need to be replaced because they are old (IMO). I happen to have some red cyano at the same time. Conclusion: old metal halide bulbs cause red cyano blooms. I post it and it takes off. You see this useless stuff all the time.

I guess any advice to newcomers regarding questions is to use the Search button, but also be aware that all the advice you get from searching or from posted questions is not necessarily good. Being able to filter through the available information is a skill that takes time to develop. But one thing I did was I tended to lean on folk's advice that had nice looking reef tanks. If I am getting advice on phosphate control from someone that has a tank full of hair algae, then you may want to take any nutrient control advice they have with a grain of salt.
 
I agree with the above entirely. That's why I often advocate WetWebMedia.... not because we don't have some knowledgeable, experienced reefers on here, but because they're published experts. Not that that makes them infallible, but they have the research (and doctorates!) to back up their decades of experience.

Anecdotal evidence gets passed around here (and everywhere) quite a bit.

Perhaps we should make a couple sticky threads, similar to what wetwebmedia has?

"Common Marine Disease problems"
"Common Lighting Questions"
et al
 
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