Growing Rate

[brandonmason]

So I wanted to get some opinions on why my growth seems to have stopped. I have a 150 gallon mixed reef. I have a colony of hammer head that started with two heads and now is up 10 or so but I havent seen any new heads grow in the past 3 monthThe same with my zoas, candy canes, and frogspawns. I also have a Green Birdsnest frag that is the exact same size as when I purchased it almost a year ago. Everything extends and opens full. One things for sure I am always seeing phosphates in my tank and with the latest test higher than I need... I just started dosing vodka to try and help with this as I am also running phosban. I feed twice a day but I do not believe I am over feeding the fish as I do seem them graze quite a bit. I dose Calcium 3 times a week along with Mag. I also dose 3-4 times a week zoo and phyto and when I have it fuel. I have absolutely no algae blooms in the tank on any of the rock. I clean the glass every two- three days. For circulation I have 3 hydor ( 2x 1400, 1 X 1050) and I have a maxi jet 1200 and another Hydor knock off 550. plus my return pump. I run a aqua 25w UV 24/7. I am using a Reef Octopus Skimmer. Parameters at latest check

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 5
PH 8.4
Alk 7.5
Phosphates 1.5
Mag 1300
Calcium 430
Temp 79

I ran out of Phosban and hadnt put any in the tank for a month (work issues with getting paid in timely manner) but have some now and hoping by the end of the week I see a major deduction in this but normally I am much lower than that. I am OCD when it comes to maintenance on my tank. 15- 20 % water changes weekly using IO for the longest but just recently switched to RC.

Any suggestions?

 

[kirkwood]

I have had birdsnest produce robust growth even before I ever started dosing, and my alk/cal/mag levels were not good. So you definitely shouldn't go a year with no growth. Only thing I can think of is instead of dosing calcium 3 times a week, figure out exactly how much to add every day to maintain the level you want. The less fluctuation you have the happier your corals will be. Yes the phosphates are high, how is your CUC? Perhaps you could add like 30 tongan nassarius snails... They do an excellent job of cleansing your sand of detritus and picking up any leftovers..

But I feel your pain. Often times I add new zoas and they rapidly started to bud new polyps and then after about 6 weeks the growth rate drops exponentially.. Still trying to figure that one out.. Sometimes its hard to make softies, LPS, and SPS happy at the same time.

 

[brandonmason]

As far as sand I have a sand star and a diamond goby (hate how he decides where the sand needs to go) once I have the RC salt changed a few times I'll start to figure out a daily method.

 

[ripped tide]

Just out of curiousity(po4 is likely the culprit) what type of lighting are you using?

 

[brandonmason]

RB LEDs

Edit: running at 80%

Edit: Im thinking the same, but just recently have I noticed that the growth has slowed drastically. IDK until I start to notice browning or bleaching I guess there is no cause for alarm but I want my birdnest to grow into the colonies I see on here

 

[ripped tide]

What po4 test? How long have you had the LEDs? What did you switch from?

 

[brandonmason]

sea chem done by Imagine Ocean, the lights were put over the tank back in December from Halides

Edit: My before and after pics from the lights are night and day. I had some red monti that was fadded to pink and now is bright red and the same with a green monti that was yellow and now is bright green... I dont believe the lights are not strong enough as I have two large clams that open fully one being in the sand bed

 

[ralph atl]

phates and trates are too high for one....or two......

 

[ripped tide]

I'm just throwing this out there, so take it how you want:

1) when a metal halide bulb looses its spectrum, it's done. It may still light up, but the spectrum produced is not beneficial for color or growth.

2) when I switched back from LEDs to halides, I saw a massive explosion of growth and color

3) think of a metal halide as a close replicate of the sun. Think of LEDs and the type of light that they put out. They put out one tight beam of an artificial, single spectrum..... Lacking UVB.


4) just saying.... Your corals are still adjusting to the lack of spectrum... IMO. I've grown coral in high phates and trates with MH/T5



This isn't a shot at you, or any other LEDs owners.... But I've seen some people who are super proud of their lights, but their corals look like total crap, except for maybe one or two LPS and softies. Because of the few that look good, it can't be the lights!? Right???


But, hey, what do I know? Not much.

Edit: Fwiw, I've seen folks who run their halide bulbs way over the expiration time, their stuff usually looks like crap too.

I change my halides once very 8 months and t-5 once every 6 months.

 

[snowmansnow]

ok I haven't read the other posts, so forgive any reposts.

1) LEDs may be the problem.. I'm not knocking anyone that HAS led's but it is high on the suspect list.
2) IMO your alk is a little low at 7.5
3) Nitrate at 5? Too high
4) PO4 at 1.5. Its high, but I don't know that it would inhibit coral growth to the point you've described. Still... drop that PO4. It COUDLD be linked to your Nitrates... are you ... maybe.. overfeeding?

Just some thoughts

B

 

[bluespot]

Good points above, especially about bulb life and spectrum change. I agree with Ripped's assessment that your tank is still adjusting to the change in lighting. I happen to run LEDs. I am a firm believer in the trusty halides with proper bulb changes. I am also a firm believer in the viability and potential of LEDs.

1.My understanding though is that single ended metal halide bulbs have a filter on them that blocks most of the UV that is emitted and little of the rest penetrates the water column well. If they didnt filter it you would burn the mess out of your livestock.

2.Double ended MHs dont have the built in filter and rely on that glass cover to filter it out.

3. The types of light emmited from both LED, MH, and T5 all produce viable growing conditions just in different ways although with LED (and T5) you need multiple "bulb types" to produce the same spectrum as a single MH.

4. When you switch between types of light it "shocks" the corals and can initially stop their growth while adjusting to the new light. They have to adjust to the spectrum change and the bigger the change the longer it can take. If your MH bulbs were worn out and had a degraded spectrum, you increased the power output of you LED module too fast, or the light spectrum of you LEDs is completely different from your MH, or combinations of the previous, it can take longer.

When I put a new frag in my tank it usually takes 1-3 months before they noticeably start growing if they were under MH first.

 

[brandonmason]

All valuable points... Phosphates are dropping now and Nitrates are at 0... I am guessing your right on the lights... I switched from Halides to LEDs due to the change period... I am not sure if the ballast was going or I was running to long but after 6 months with the halides it was time for a change... and being that my job (under normal circumstances) could keep me away long periods and my wife isnt capable of changing the bulbs due to the weight of the canopy, maybe I have just noticed things more that the company I work for is going through restructure so I have been home a whole lot. I guess the good news is no bleaching or browning from the switch so I am sure its just taking time for them to acclimate to the new lights... I really would like to get a couple of t5 fixtures and supplement...

Edit:

Ripped Tide;857182 wrote: I'm just throwing this out there, so take it how you want:

1) when a metal halide bulb looses its spectrum, it's done. It may still light up, but the spectrum produced is not beneficial for color or growth.

2) when I switched back from LEDs to halides, I saw a massive explosion of growth and color

3) think of a metal halide as a close replicate of the sun. Think of LEDs and the type of light that they put out. They put out one tight beam of an artificial, single spectrum..... Lacking UVB.


4) just saying.... Your corals are still adjusting to the lack of spectrum... IMO. I've grown coral in high phates and trates with MH/T5






This isn't a shot at you, or any other LEDs owners.... But I've seen some people who are super proud of their lights, but their corals look like total crap, except for maybe one or two LPS and softies. Because of the few that look good, it can't be the lights!? Right???


But, hey, what do I know? Not much.

Edit: Fwiw, I've seen folks who run their halide bulbs way over the expiration time, their stuff usually looks like crap too.

I change my halides once very 8 months and t-5 once every 6 months.

Oh Im not one of the super proud ones.... I would like to run T5s with LED supplements but maybe once I am more local I can be home enough to manage the change periods for bulbs.... I loved my halides just with the heat and bulbs it was getting to be a hassle on time

 

[kirkwood]

i had 90degree optics on eshine LEDS and after I removed those the corals were much happier. but you're LEDs are dimmable so I wouldn't think you're giving too much light.. It took my tank 8 months to fully adjust to LEDs from T5's..

 

[brandonmason]

8 months... dang that's a long time.