Happy Fish

[ripped tide]

It wouldn't take long before they realized I "ripped" them off and have no clue what fish think. I could probably just make some stuff up.

Me- "that fish is thinking about food!"

Audience- "omg he really knows what they think!!!"

 

[grouper therapy]

Ripped Tide;768801 wrote: It wouldn't take long before they realized I "ripped" them off and have no clue what fish think. I could probably just make some stuff up.

Me- "that fish is thinking about food!"

Audience- "omg he really knows what they think!!!"

No worries it has been done here with out repercussions. lol

 

[atlfishes]

By the size of their dumps! Big = Happy

 

[ripped tide]

If I was a fish, I'd feel like a prisoner, unless I was captive bred . Stockholms syndrome is strong with these creatures. I'd say human's god complexes are what ultimately cause us to do what we do and build these "environments" for these creatures. I doubt this is a conscious effort to play "God", however many of us find satisfaction in setting up a "successful" tank. This hobby calls or an open mind and personal interpretation.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Arguably, we all strive to maintain our livestock to a standard as they are in their natural, wild setting. Im not talking about what we make our aquariums. ANY aquarists who thinks they can do it better, or even near as good as nature is fooling themselves. I am talking about the fishes "condition". Their morphology, they behavior, their overall health. In my opinion, we cant think of how fish are happy emotionally</em>, but instead how they are happy physiologically and behaviorally. And the bar is set at as they are in the wild. One does not see skinny fish with pinched bellies in the wild. One does not see group of multi specifics fighting for space and food.

I can see where this therad and debate is coming from, and I must personally insist that there are infinite shades of grey in aquarium keeping. There isn't only black and white. Polar opposites. By this, I mean, there must be middle ground between A) Leave all aquatic life in the ocean, where it is from, and B) we can do whatever we want in our aquariums.

For those who feel that spatial limitations aren't important for fish because they dont "know" that a tank is 3 foot or four foot or whatever- where do we draw the line? Is it OK to cram a 3 foot nurse shark into a 4 foot 55 gallon aquarium? Using this logic- no. But I would argue probably everyone one of us would object to it.

 

[grouper therapy]

jmaneyapanda;768871 wrote: Arguably, we all strive to maintain our livestock to a standard as they are in their natural, wild setting. Im not talking about what we make our aquariums. ANY aquarists who thinks they can do it better, or even near as good as nature is fooling themselves. I am talking about the fishes "condition". Their morphology, they behavior, their overall health. In my opinion, we cant think of how fish are happy emotionally</em>, but instead how they are happy physiologically and behaviorally. And the bar is set at as they are in the wild. One does not see skinny fish with pinched bellies in the wild. One does not see group of multi specifics fighting for space and food.

I can see where this therad and debate is coming from, and I must personally insist that there are infinite shades of grey in aquarium keeping. There isn't only black and white. Polar opposites. By this, I mean, there must be middle ground between A) Leave all aquatic life in the ocean, where it is from, and B) we can do whatever we want in our aquariums.

For those who feel that spatial limitations aren't important for fish because they dont "know" that a tank is 3 foot or four foot or whatever- where do we draw the line? Is it OK to cram a 3 foot nurse shark into a 4 foot 55 gallon aquarium? Using this logic- no. But I would argue probably everyone one of us would object to it.

I think it is called exercising discernment.That is why I incorporated the method and idea I used to keep multiple tangs in my 156. If the zebrosomas in my system at one time roamed 100 yds of reef I'm not sure and if they did I'm not sure they were affected by my tank being 12" shorter than what most on here recommend. I understand that basic guidelines need to be established but I do not think ,as you have said that they have to be adhered to at all times. I took the time to take note of their behavior and made adjustments in my husbandry to accommodate for what I reasoned was their needs. I was successful based on what you and most experienced hobbyist have said about fish health and behavior They were fat, docile and free of any obvious health issues for over 4 years.
I understand that some people are content being a follower, I'd rather venture outside the norm and try to advance our understanding of the fish and corals. For those who choose not to fine. But an attempt to discredit my experience/success by means of a sermon on the moral standards of fish keeping or comparing it to some stupid stunt is perhaps an indication of tunnel vision, fear or ignorance. Even if none of these reasons apply, those type of responses are not encouraging to those who do want to responsibly step out of the box and possibly advance the hobby. When replied to in these way no hard feelings ! Really! But I will respectively challenge.

 

[db366]

grouper therapy;769015 wrote: I think it is called exercising discernment.That is why I incorporated the method and idea I used to keep multiple tangs in my 156. If the zebrosomas in my system at one time roamed 100 yds of reef I'm not sure and if they did I'm not sure they were affected by my tank being 12" shorter than what most on here recommend. I understand that basic guidelines need to be established but I do not think ,as you have said that they have to be adhered to at all times. I took the time to take note of their behavior and made adjustments in my husbandry to accommodate for what I reasoned was their needs. I was successful based on what you and most experienced hobbyist have said about fish health and behavior They were fat, docile and free of any obvious health issues for over 4 years.
I understand that some people are content being a follower, I'd rather venture outside the norm and try to advance our understanding of the fish and corals. For those who choose not to fine. But an attempt to discredit my experience/success by means of a sermon on the moral standards of fish keeping or comparing it to some stupid stunt is perhaps an indication of tunnel vision, fear or ignorance. Even if none of these reasons apply, those type of responses are not encouraging to those who do want to responsibly step out of the box and possibly advance the hobby. When replied to in these way no hard feelings ! Really! But I will respectively challenge.

You sir have a way with words. If only everyone could see it like this.

 

[rdnelson]

Dave, what you are saying makes perfect sense to me and I don't argue with it whatsoever. What I would do however, is suggest a bit of disclaimer. This and most other forums are frequented by people with wide range of experience. To many of you who have been doing this for years and years, it is easier to see when someone is pushing the limits in the interest of furthering our overall understanding. But to the beginner, it is easy to latch onto to something they see in a post without knowing the facts. In other words, "hey this guy has 5 Tangs in a Biocube, why can't I?".

That would not make you responsible for the bad conditions of the newbie's fish but it may have been avoided if it were made clear that you are exploring outside of the standard recommendations and that it should only be done by someone with the experience to do it responsibly.

 

[grouper therapy]

rdnelson99;769038 wrote: Dave, what you are saying makes perfect sense to me and I don't argue with it whatsoever. What I would do however, is suggest a bit of disclaimer. This and most other forums are frequented by people with wide range of experience. To many of you who have been doing this for years and years, it is easier to see when someone is pushing the limits in the interest of furthering our overall understanding. But to the beginner, it is easy to latch onto to something they see in a post without knowing the facts. In other words, "hey this guy has 5 Tangs in a Biocube, why can't I?".

That would not make you responsible for the bad conditions of the newbie's fish but it may have been avoided if it were made clear that you are exploring outside of the standard recommendations and that it should only be done by someone with the experience to do it responsibly.

That is eactly why I prefaced it with the info on food being the main reason IME for aggression not the actual territory itself and that was how I was able to keep that amount of fish in my tank. I did not dogmatically say that one can keep 10 tangs in a 156 with out in the very least a brief explanation of how. If the OP was interested in my exoerience, then further discussion could have been had which is how the newbies gain experience, No?I feel that I offered actual experience and a minute line of reasoning to support it . . This is a DISCUSSION forum not a faq drop down. In regards newcomers only latching on to one line statements and not researching or in the least asking more questions I refuse to be responsible for the irresponsible actions of others. So why I totally respect your very valid points I think I posted responsibly . I can not control how thorough others decide to read or comprehend no more so than the LFS can control how well their patrons listen.
I also understand that there are a few that will selfishly take from a discussion only the portion that suits or supports their "wants" even though they fully understood what they read or heard. I refuse to be silenced by that ignorant few.

 

[rdnelson]

grouper therapy;769045 wrote: I did not dogmatically say that one can keep 10 tangs in a 156 with out in the very least a brief explanation of how.

See now there you go again. We are having a nice friendly discussion about fish and you have to bring dogs into it. :tongue:

In all actuality, I was not speaking of you in particular but on general comments made on forums. So many times you see threads where someone says "You can..... because I did it......" and that is it. I agree, you usually do give a very good explanation of what and why you are doing something.

 

[ripped tide]

Good lord this discussion has ADD. I was in make-up getting ready for my new reality tv show, and I come back to the thread and y'all are fussing about tangs?

Btw, the tangs are thinking about food.

 

[rdnelson]

Ripped Tide;769070 wrote: Good lord this discussion has ADD. I was in make-up getting ready for my new reality tv show, and I come back to the thread and y'all are fussing about tangs?

Btw, the tangs are thinking about food.

You are taking this "Secretary" thing a little too seriously. First shaving your legs and now make-up???? You going to get implants next? hehehehe

 

[ripped tide]

rdnelson99;769086 wrote: You are taking this "Secretary" thing a little too seriously. First shaving your legs and now make-up???? You going to get implants next? hehehehe

I'm gonna quote thanh for a moment:

"I'm going to pee in your tabk!"