Hello

[redstang]

BIGGQ00;608469 wrote: +100

Showed my wife the budget last night. With everything new it screamed right past 2k and that didn't include fish or corals. Her eyes got but she just commented that we just need to start saving :thumbs:. She didn't even remind me that I said $1500 2 weeks ago(sans livestock). I did try to get her to pick some fish she might be interested in. All she wants is a yellow tang, nemo, and dory. I guess there's no question that my kids are related to her because they say the same thing. Of course, my daughter also likes to look at fishy sites with me and then claim she wants the $500 fish. Brat. My goal is to get back to $1500ish with some used equipment and equipment that will do the job for a year or so and then upgrade. I'd love LED lights but wow the cost. The hope is their price drops as fast as the Atlanta housing market over the next couple of years.

I'm trying really hard to pick quality stuff without spending tooooo much but I'm so new at this I'll probably make a thread in the Q&A forum to get some opinions. I also need to figure which areas are best for compromising and which areas you can't afford to skimp.

Oh, hydrometer scratched from budget, refractometer is in. Also just discovered the reefkeeper. Looks like a cool device that could make my life MUCH easier.

 

[gnashty]

Im just now reading thru this and you are way ahead of others looking to set up a tank. Just remember, the bigger the tank - the bigger the maintenence and equip costs. Ive found that if you can stay around the 48" width range your lighting options arent too costly - its the 60 & 72" fixtures that are going to get ya...ouch

That being said there are a couple things I prefer to buy new and lighting is one of them, T5 fixtures specificaly. Unless you are able to open it all up and inspect every bit of it you have no idea if it is full of corrosion and salt creep or has had some type of previous water damage. Im all about used stuff, but some things just arent worth it. Metal Halides you can buy used as you can crack open a ballast to inspect it..

Some ongoing costs to keep in mind are:
<ul>
<li>Good quality test kits (I prefer seachem or elos)</li>
<li>A good reef salt</li>
<li>RODI filters</li>
<li>Expect your power and water bill to rise</li>
<li>Carbon (if you decide to use it)</li>
<li>Bulbs (most should be changed out annually)</li>
<li>Food Supplements and Dosing additives (if you choose to use them)</li>
<li>Good Fish Food</li>
<li>Bath Towels (to clean up your messes, the misses wont let you use the good ones for ever..lol)</li>
</ul>Someone said it before and rings true for me as far as a budget. $40-50 per gallon for a mixed reef is a pretty good number. Obviously you can get it done alot cheaper since you have the luxury of time to shop around.

Sounds like you have the buy in of your family which is a great start and are being transparent about the budget (that will change...lol).

Some other advice...

Dont buy 1 large heater, get 2 smaller ones and put them on a controller (like you mentioned above)

ATO is def a must

Dont skimp on the skimmer

Know what your temp swings could be in the location you are putting the tank. With lights, pumps, heat or AC in the house tanks tend to fluctuate in temp anyway so know what you are getting in to before you have to buy an expensive peice of equip like a chiller.

Utilize the sponsors for your needs, we have some great sponsor stores that will help you with whatever you need. Before you buy online, call a sponsor - chances are they can beat the price, order it for you and help if you need to access customer service for any reason. Keeps the money in Georgia too! Plus members get at least 10% off on most items.

I started the hobby before I found ARC, I bought fast and cheap and bought twice...I have a garage full of stuff nobody wants..lol

so do what you do, take your time, ask a ton of questions here and other places too - dont just trust one source of information or one peice of advice. Dont do something because one person said to and dont do things you dont understand. and last but not least.....only dose what you can test for.

 

[mapleredta]

Buy as much as you can used. That'll save you a TON of money. Keep a sharp eye out for somebody selling an entire system. It happens quite often on here actually. Watch craigslist for tanks, check Reef Central and Reef2Reef for equipment from people who are getting out of the hobby.

 

[redstang]

bluffmagjeff;608585 wrote: Also, IMO, an ATO is an absolute requirement. I don't even see them as an option. There was a question on this forum a month or so ago - "What is the one thing that you could not maintain an aquarium without" or something like that. I think the most common responses (at the time) were ATO and test kit. For me, it's 3 things - ATO, test kit & RO/DI unit. Carrying water from the LFS is such a pain in the butt...especially when it spills all over the trunk of your car on one of the trips!!

ATO added. Was already planning on an RO/DI unit and a good test kit. Thanks for the advice!

gnashty;608640 wrote: Im just now reading thru this and you are way ahead of others looking to set up a tank. Just remember, the bigger the tank - the bigger the maintenence and equip costs. Ive found that if you can stay around the 48" width range your lighting options arent too costly - its the 60 & 72" fixtures that are going to get ya...ouch

That being said there are a couple things I prefer to buy new and lighting is one of them, T5 fixtures specificaly. Unless you are able to open it all up and inspect every bit of it you have no idea if it is full of corrosion and salt creep or has had some type of previous water damage. Im all about used stuff, but some things just arent worth it. Metal Halides you can buy used as you can crack open a ballast to inspect it..


Some ongoing costs to keep in mind are:
<ul>
<li>Good quality test kits (I prefer seachem or elos)</li>
<li>A good reef salt</li>
<li>RODI filters</li>
<li>Expect your power and water bill to rise</li>
<li>Carbon (if you decide to use it)</li>
<li>Bulbs (most should be changed out annually)</li>
<li>Food Supplements and Dosing additives (if you choose to use them)</li>
<li>Good Fish Food</li>
<li>Bath Towels (to clean up your messes, the misses wont let you use the good ones for ever..lol)</li>
</ul>Someone said it before and rings true for me as far as a budget. $40-50 per gallon for a mixed reef is a pretty good number. Obviously you can get it done alot cheaper since you have the luxury of time to shop around.

Sounds like you have the buy in of your family which is a great start and are being transparent about the budget (that will change...lol).

Some other advice...

Dont buy 1 large heater, get 2 smaller ones and put them on a controller (like you mentioned above)

ATO is def a must

Dont skimp on the skimmer

Know what your temp swings could be in the location you are putting the tank. With lights, pumps, heat or AC in the house tanks tend to fluctuate in temp anyway so know what you are getting in to before you have to buy an expensive peice of equip like a chiller.

Utilize the sponsors for your needs, we have some great sponsor stores that will help you with whatever you need. Before you buy online, call a sponsor - chances are they can beat the price, order it for you and help if you need to access customer service for any reason. Keeps the money in Georgia too! Plus members get at least 10% off on most items.

I started the hobby before I found ARC, I bought fast and cheap and bought twice...I have a garage full of stuff nobody wants..lol

so do what you do, take your time, ask a ton of questions here and other places too - dont just trust one source of information or one peice of advice. Dont do something because one person said to and dont do things you dont understand. and last but not least.....only dose what you can test for.

I concur on the heaters. Wonder if it's possible to use a pwer strip, or similar, to put 3 or 4 heaters on one plug for the controller. Being in IT, and ex-navy machinist's mate, I've learned the value of redundancy. As fo rthe skimmer I do tend to read a bunc of threads about someone upgrading theirs. Hint hint I guess. I am curious about temp swings. The unit will be somewhat close to a window but it has good blinds. May get a window insert to block any seepage around the window. Good chance I'll have to invest in a chiller as it's only 4 feet from a gas burning fireplace. I can feel it a little warmer but the fan in the room does an excellent job of distributing the heat around the large room so I may just be paranoid. I also plan on mounting some fans at the back of the enclosure it's going into blowing across the top and out into the room. That should help even if it does increase evaporation.

Funny you bring up ongoing costs. My wife and I were just discussing that today. I'll be working up a budget for that too but I don't think it'll be a deal breaker.

Plan on becoming an ARC member this month or next, whenever I decide to start buying equipment or need something they offer. I'll almost certainly go used on the tank but you never know.

mapleredta;608651 wrote: Buy as much as you can used. That'll save you a TON of money. Keep a sharp eye out for somebody selling an entire system. It happens quite often on here actually. Watch craigslist for tanks, check Reef Central and Reef2Reef for equipment from people who are getting out of the hobby.

There are some great deals on entire systems but I'm not really interested in that route. I enjoy building things. I finished our basement myself sans the carpet. I'll enjoy telling people it's our aquarium rather than someone elses that I bought. Just the way I am, not a slam on anyone who wants, or needs, the convenience of a already running system.

Thanks all for the complimetns, we'll see how true they ring over the 6-12 months!

 

[redstang]

So I'm intrigued by LED lighting but put off by the cost. I took alook at some DIY LED and stumbled across a link in this forum to rapidled.com. Figure I won't do corals for at least 6 months so I may be able to get by with a modular approach. Came up with $520 for 48 3w LED's(30 cool white, 12 royal blue) 4 drivers, 4 power cords, and 2 4.25"x23" heat sinks. Also threw in a couple fans though I'm sure I can beat that price either locally or online. Need to add wiring too.

These will go on a 48x24x24 tank that will most likely have a single center brace. I plan on bank on each side. I can hang the lights easy enough. Thoughts on if this would be adequate to start with? Adequate for an extended period? Figure the 3w bulbs would be better for the 24" depth than the 1w.

So, LED/lighting experts, am I on the right track? Change up some of the RB for plain B? Specific bulbs below.
<span style="color: #555555">30 CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W LED Star</span>
<span style="color: #555555">12 CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W LED Star</span>

 

[redstang]

Good Lord I love the internet. Stumbled across EcoRay LED's. ~$600 for two of their 60LED models and I wouldn't have to build anything. Did a search on here and only found a few references to them though.

Also realized that I didn't have a sump pump in my budget :doh:. Good thing I'm months away from accomplishing anything. After reading many threads here I'm going to house the sump and refugium in the basement. This should help with heat issues too as the basement is always cooler.

Also, have a basic stock list. This is eventual, not at once.
2 Nemo's.
2 B&W Nemo's. Will prob into all 4 clowns at the same time.
4-5 blue green chromis. These will most likely be the first fish.
A Goby/Shrimp pair.
A Blenny.
A Six Line Wrasse.
A Pacific Blue Tang. Probably the last fish added. At least until one dies!
Blue leopard wrasse.
Psychadelic Mandarin Fish.
Exquisite Fairy Wrasse.
Royal Gamma.
Clown Coris wrasse.
Black Cap Basslet.
Some sort of clean-up crew.
All types of corals eventually.

I'm sure some more visits to LFS' will drum up some other candidates but that's the list for now. Not necessarily expecting each of those to make the cut based on space. I tried to stick to fish that had similar eating requirements. Is that a good idea?

 

[stacy22]

1) I would stick to one pair of clowns. Many clowns become overly aggressive to others.
2) Your six line wrasse will most likely harrass any other wrasses possibly to the point of killing them.
3) Mandarins and leopard wrasses will compete with each other for food and either would need a well-established tank. Getting both, I think is asking for trouble.

 

[cr500_af]

stacy22;609583 wrote: 1) I would stick to one pair of clowns. Many clowns become overly aggressive to others.
2) Your six line wrasse will most likely harrass any other wrasses possibly to the point of killing them.
3) Mandarins and leopard wrasses will compete with each other for food and either would need a well-established tank. Getting both, I think is asking for trouble.

+1 on all of this.

Two pairs of clowns is not impossible, but the chances for trouble are much greater than the chances for peace.

Mandarins feed exclusively on copepods and amphipods, which need to be well established and reproducing in the system before the fish goes in, otherwise they are likely to starve. A Leopard Wrasse would add to the problem by eating a lot of them. If they are getting eaten faster than they are reproducing, the food supply chain is broken. Getting a Mandarin to eat anything else is pretty rare IMO.

 

[redstang]

cr500_af;609592 wrote: +1 on all of this.

Two pairs of clowns is not impossible, but the chances for trouble are much greater than the chances for peace.

Mandarins feed exclusively on copepods and amphipods, which need to be well established and reproducing in the system before the fish goes in, otherwise they are likely to starve. A Leopard Wrasse would add to the problem by eating a lot of them. If they are getting eaten faster than they are reproducing, the food supply chain is broken. Getting a Mandarin to eat anything else is pretty rare IMO.

Yeah, I have the need for the tank to be well established for copeped eaters listed in my spreadsheet. I've read that about the clowns but have also read that if they're introduced at the same time they'll likely get along. I'll certainly investigate it more and, if necessary, dump the B&W's.

 

[redstang]

stacy22;609583 wrote: 1) I would stick to one pair of clowns. Many clowns become overly aggressive to others.
2) Your six line wrasse will most likely harrass any other wrasses possibly to the point of killing them.
3) Mandarins and leopard wrasses will compete with each other for food and either would need a well-established tank. Getting both, I think is asking for trouble.

Thanks for the info on the six line wrasse. The couple of sites I read said they would play well with others. Wasn't sure if multiple pod eaters were an option or not so I'll stick to one of them.

Thanks for the input.

 

[redstang]

Well, got The Marine Reef Aquarium delivered today via Amazon. Looks to be a good book!

 

[redstang]

Well, thanks to the forum, I jumped on a 29g biocube to tide me over for the 6-9 months it will take to get everything for the 120g! Hope to have it up and running in July. Need a RO/DI unit, skimmer, and do some mods to the biocube for better filtration.

This will eventually either be a QT, frag tank, or possibly be the way I can have both Ocellaris and B&W clownfish. The whole family is excited though. Hope to get the RODI in April and the skimmer/salt/sand/rock in May.

 

[redstang]

Well, very slow progress has been made. I got the tank cleaned up and removed the bio balls. Got a refractometer from Barry. I've bought a Hydor Pico Evolution 1200 pump. Was hoping to replace the stock pump with it but have heard some not so nice things about its performance so it will probably be relegated to salt water mixing duty. I also have got an aqueon water changy thingy that's done a stellar job on my sons 5 gallon glo-fish tank. And my wife also bought me a Koralia 425. A vortech mp10 is on the wishlist but will more than likely be a next year buy.

Hope to get the RODI unit next month. It will also see dual use with the kids aquariums.

Next up will be a media rack to replace the bio balls and some filter floss, purigen, and chemipure elite to go in it. Then a heater, mag float, temp sensor and test kit.

I figure with Father's Day coming up I should have everything but salt, sand, and rock taken care of. Goal is to start the cycle by my birthday July 12.

A reefkeeper light is also on the wishlist but most likely a Christmas present . Thoroughly enjoying reading about everyone else's tanks though!

Oh yeah! ARC membership should be in the next month or two as well! Amazon prime is great but it's more fun to drive home from a store with something and support LFS besides.

 

[frantz]

I picked up a 120 gal, light with 6 t5 slots and bulbs, stand, 40 gal acrylic sump, pump, skimmer and a few odds and ends for 1500 cause my friend bought it and two days later decided salt tanks were too much time, and I couldn't talk her into a nice FW system. She had spent 2300 on it. So its def doable. Now keep in mind I still needed LR, fish, and some frags along with some power heads.. and then i needed that second cube tank and now i'm looking for an additional lighting system (Im a supporter of LFS, but the LED systems on amazon.com are hard to beat price wise).

For the clownfish, I too thought 120 would be enough but my maroon (yes i know this is already sounds like a bad idea) did not get along with the established Ocellaris pair almost killed him (hence the 25 got set back up). Also I am having territorial problems with a sailfin tang and what i think is a kole tang. The kole ends up hiding under rocks all day and I have to feed sinking pellets to get food down to him, which ends up making a bigger mess. Research is helpful in avoiding mistakes, but making sure you have the budget and patience to learning from experiences will be a big factor! Good luck and welcome to the ARC! its a great hobby and a great community.

 

[redstang]

Frantz;639283 wrote: I picked up a 120 gal, light with 6 t5 slots and bulbs, stand, 40 gal acrylic sump, pump, skimmer and a few odds and ends for 1500 cause my friend bought it and two days later decided salt tanks were too much time, and I couldn't talk her into a nice FW system. She had spent 2300 on it. So its def doable. Now keep in mind I still needed LR, fish, and some frags along with some power heads.. and then i needed that second cube tank and now i'm looking for an additional lighting system (Im a supporter of LFS, but the LED systems on amazon.com are hard to beat price wise).

For the clownfish, I too thought 120 would be enough but my maroon (yes i know this is already sounds like a bad idea) did not get along with the established Ocellaris pair almost killed him (hence the 25 got set back up). Also I am having territorial problems with a sailfin tang and what i think is a kole tang. The kole ends up hiding under rocks all day and I have to feed sinking pellets to get food down to him, which ends up making a bigger mess. Research is helpful in avoiding mistakes, but making sure you have the budget and patience to learning from experiences will be a big factor! Good luck and welcome to the ARC! its a great hobby and a great community.

Yeah, a 120 is in my future but it will be some time. The BC29 just kind of popped up and I jumped on it to tide me over. Whether it's for a year, 6 months, or 5 years who knows. We could do this faster but then I'd have to put other projects on hold. Not to mention gas prices which drove me, no pun intended, to buy a commuter car and save miles on my stang. 90 mile round trip commute burns through some gas!

 

[frantz]

I drive a stang too... I am going back to PA to work on an older v6 stang to save money off the tire/fuel cost of my '10. I feel ya.

 

[redstang]

Firming up the potential stock list as well. This is for a 29G BioCube.

Cleanup crew
2 clownfish. I like B&W, kids like Ocellaris. Kids most likely win.
1 Firefish
1 Yellow watchman goby
1 Six line wrasse
1 Pistol shrimp to pair with the goby

I've considered a flameback dwarf angel as I've read of several success stories in 25-30 gal aquariums. We'll see. Other candidates for substitution with one of the above would be a royal gramma, bicolor blenny, or possibly a dottyback like the springeri.

Obviously not all would be added at once. Clowns would be added at the same time as would the shrimp and goby. Is there a recommended waiting period between adding new livestock? Need to set expectations for the family.

Any glaring issues? Overstocked?