I need Vortech MP10 advice

[siavashv]

So I started my RSM 250 tank last week and have been nothing but overjoyed with everything this hobby has to offer. I LOVE IT! Ok, so anyway, I decided to get a few tester fish (3 chromis and a firefish) and when I got home my Vortech MP10's had arrived. Needless to say it was a fun night. But anyway, I am sending this thread out there to get peoples' opinions on the placement of my MP10's. I have two and have placed them close to the back of the tank on the side (being that you can't put Vortechs on the back wall of a RedSea Max). I just want to see if people think they're in a good spot. I am posting some pics. Notice that the pumps from the tank are somewhat close by but pointing upwards to agitate the surface of the water. Also, please tell me what is a good setting to put the MP10's on.. I got two wireless ones so all I need to do is set up the master powerhead.
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[haninja]

I don't know how powerful are the MP10s, might think they are too small for that tank... but, if you going to place them on the sides, you don't want them blasting the rock structure directly. You want to place them such that the flow will caress the rocks (and eventually the corals). I would say 2/3 hight and and 2/3 front.

 

[lilrobb]

siavashv;618645 wrote: So I started my RSM 250 tank last week and have been nothing but overjoyed with everything this hobby has to offer. I LOVE IT! Ok, so anyway, I decided to get a few tester fish (3 chromis and a firefish) and when I got home my Vortech MP10's had arrived. Needless to say it was a fun night. But anyway, I am sending this thread out there to get peoples' opinions on the placement of my MP10's. I have two and have placed them close to the back of the tank on the side (being that you can't put Vortechs on the back wall of a RedSea Max). I just want to see if people think they're in a good spot. I am posting some pics. Notice that the pumps from the tank are somewhat close by but pointing upwards to agitate the surface of the water. Also, please tell me what is a good setting to put the MP10's on.. I got two wireless ones so all I need to do is set up the master powerhead.

wait!
You started the tank last week and put "tester" fish in?

I am afraid not many people on here will agree with your idea here...

 

[siavashv]

LilRobb;618652 wrote: wait!
You started the tank last week and put "tester" fish in?

I am afraid not many people on here will agree with your idea here...

I'm afraid I don't understand. I tested for Ammonia and Nitrites and found none. So I don't know what the harm is in adding some fish. They have been in the tank for the last two days and have been perfectly fine. They are eating and swimming around happily. I also have invertebrates that I got to post up as the cleaning crew. If the water levels are good what's wrong with adding stuff? I haven't added any coral and will not for a while. But fish?

 

[liverock27]

haninja;618651 wrote: I don't know how powerful are the MP10s, might think they are too small for that tank... but, if you going to place them on the sides, you don't want them blasting the rock structure directly. You want to place them such that the flow will caress the rocks (and eventually the corals). I would say 2/3 hight and and 2/3 front.

Agree with the placement. I have 1 in my Biocube and this is where I have mine on the opposite side of the return.

I like the Lagoon setting because it isn't a constant speed, but not too much for my smaller tank.

 

[lilrobb]

The cycle won't set in for a week - so once this tank starts cycling (which will happen unless you used perfectly cured liverock with zero dieoff) you're harming your fish...
Raj's analogy and it fits pretty well - imagine a human in a room where the Nitrogen in the air is replaced with Chlorine.
Will you live? Most certainly
Will you be okay afterwards? Most certainly not

 

[siavashv]

LiveRock27;618656 wrote: Agree with the placement. I have 1 in my Biocube and this is where I have mine on the opposite side of the return.

I like the Lagoon setting because it isn't a constant speed, but not too much for my smaller tank.

So basically what you are saying is that I should move them towards the front of the tank? So you agree with 2/3 of the way up the tank side and 2/3 of the way towards the front of the tank? I guess that might make sense since the coral will be sitting towards the front of the tank on the rock that is sort of cascading downwards from the back... So just to be clear.. that is what you mean?

Edit:

LilRobb;618658 wrote: The cycle won't set in for a week - so once this tank starts cycling (which will happen unless you used perfectly cured liverock with zero dieoff) you're harming your fish...
Raj's analogy and it fits pretty well - imagine a human in a room where the Nitrogen in the air is replaced with Chlorine.
Will you live? Most certainly
Will you be okay afterwards? Most certainly not

Whoa! Ok. So I think I got pretty good cured rock. Not sure what you mean by the die off.. but the rock is really cured well it seems. So according to your analogy, the fish are going to do what? Die soon? And what is your suggestion for time to wait until you add fish? or inverts?

 

[lilrobb]

Common practice is to wait until the cycle is complete before stocking a tank...
Die off is when bacteria on the rock itself dies while the rock is not submerged in water.
If you brought the rock completely wet and it wasn't exposed to air in the process I might be wrong.
If it was exposed to air you will see some effects in about 2-4 weeks...

 

[gmpolan]

+1 with Robb....perhaps see if you could possibly relocated the fish until your tank finish cycling just for the sake of the fish

For what its worth, id move the mp10's more towards the middle of the side glass panes

 

[angiegreenwell]

If you cant move them I have heard that using Seachem stability can help the fish. I would see what others with experience have to say about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

 

[jmaneyapanda]

LiveRock27;618656 wrote: Agree with the placement. I have 1 in my Biocube and this is where I have mine on the opposite side of the return.

I like the Lagoon setting because it isn't a constant speed, but not too much for my smaller tank.

Lagoon setting is just as powerful as reef crest, it just doesn't fluctuate as much. But it pushes water just as hard as any other setting.

To the OP, I'm afraid Robb is right. Even considering the fish "testers" is a bit cruel and outdated. Hopefully, your rock is 100% cured, and you won't have a spike of toxins.

 

[liverock27]

Yes, I agree with moving the MP10 forward in your tank because that is where the corals will be.

jmaneyapanda;618707 wrote: Lagoon setting is just as powerful as reef crest, it just doesn't fluctuate as much. But it pushes water just as hard as any other setting.

I guess that makes since because both are set at the same level. Might give it a try. Thanks.

 

[siavashv]

ok... so I had no intention of hurting the fish... they seem to be ok.. I bought all the rock live and cured very well from pure reef. They even had some coraline? (purple stuff) spread over them. So... here are a few questions:

1. How would I test to see if there are toxins for the safety of the fish? What kind of tests do I need to run?

2. Do I need to remove the inverts? snails, crabs, etc...?

3. When do I know that my water is fully cycled, to be able to add fish?

4. What are the long term effects that can be realized from prematurely adding the fish?

 

[thanh386]

1. Buy a test kit or bring your water to a local fish store you trust. Biggest killer is ammonia, make sure it's 0. Everything else can be 0-10ish, ideally 0ish. Elos has good kits

2. How long how they been in there, if it's over 3 days and inverts have not died they are ok. As for fish, I don't think you can catch them without removing your rocks and stirring up even more stuff.

3. Ideally all your parameters would be 0, a steady temp, and 8-10 alk ( make sure it's steady as well). Add fish and coral and be poor.

4. Short term is they die and you lose they fish. In my experience there is no long term. I had the damsel I used to cycle my water for the longest time before I was abler to catch it.

 

[acroholic]

Sia,
If you are going by the advice you get from PureReef, then you are in good hands. Your tank is a total of 65 gallons. MP10s are perfectly sized for that volume of water. Two give you over 3000 GPH flow. I would start them on the middle l/r sides of the tank, about 4-5" below the water surface. You and I have PM'd about the flow pattern/volume you pick being dependent on the type corals you want to keep.

Your use of the term "test fish" may be the issue. Most people do a fishless cycle of their tanks, and I believe that is what some people are commenting on here. But I do not think this is the case. IMO, if your live rock is cured when you buy it, then there should be no reason to expect a second cycle when you set it up in your tank. My first reef was a 120 gallon, and I bought 175 pounds of live rock from a fellow ARC Member, added it to my tank, and put corals and a couple fish in there. Never had any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

Test your water for ammonia and nitrites daily, and if you see any, get the fish out of there. Simple enough. Don't overpopulate your tank, and add fish slowly, not a bunch at once. Do not overfeed.

One last thing, and I am not saying you are doing this, but realize that you do not want to get into the habit of taking every last thing you are told/read from everyone as the truth and the absolute only way you should do things. To make it easier on yourself, for example, whether you local fish store is an ARC Sponsor or not, if you feel you have been getting treated well by knowledgable staff and receiving good advice aimed at the well being of your reef tank, then stick with them.

Many things you hear and read from others are good, and some are not so good. A lot of stuff is simple regurgitation without any evidence, and some is based on a one time happening in someone's reef tank. But if you take it all in and try to implement it or come up with a way to run your tank, then that is a recipe for disaster, IMO.

I started out in the reef hobby reading a lot of the Reef Alchemy articles by Randy Holmes Farley. I based my equipment and husbandry choices on what I saw people who had the kind of corals/coral colors/fish health I wanted using in their system.

When reading threads off the ARC or any other Reef Forum, I always looked for people that stated, something like: "I have used this, and this is what it did," or "I have not used this, but I have read that......." Comments on products or topics gleaned from actual experience is one thing, restating something you have only read is another. What is the experience level of the person posting? Are they new with less experience that you? Their advice may be fine, but it may not be as well. Many Reefers operate on the "I did this and it caused this" cause and effect principle. While this may be true, the effect they see may not have been caused by what they did, but by another 20 different variable going on inside their system, or only partly because of what they did.
Dave