Ich and brook wipe out

[cahalbach]

Help all! I have a question on what do I do now? I got this fish from a LFS nearly 4 weeks ago a powder blue and it was doing fine then showed its ich, I added in a cleaner wrasse which clearly it didn't care for and it stressed it so much that the fish died two days later after the ich was progressing and brook even looked a little present. It also took my valentini puffer and my mandarin. Another possible coincidence was that same day a LFS told me I needed to be dosing calcium and magnesium so I did my first dose and then next morning was when they were gone. Two days later my clowns and the wrasse are gone (clowns really looked like brook). They also died the day after doing the second calcium dose. The LFS sold me the two step calcium set called reef fusion. After the first round he fish died I did a 15gal water change in my 60gal tank. But what do I do now? I need it not to wipe the last few fish.. my foxface has a few ich spots, my cardinal is twitching, the firefish is fine and the diamond goby is a little off today. How do I save them and stop all of this? It is a reef tank, I am feeding them metro, focus, garlic and pemisis. They were also getting some of the medicated caviar as well. Please no lectures on tank size and fish I feel horrible and just want this to stop. Any helpful advice is welcome. I am heading to the LFS in an hour to check my water.


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[zachxlutz]

You need to set up a QT tank and pull all your fish from the main tank and leave it fallow (fishless) for 72 days. Treat the fish in the QT with required medications and then begin a QT process for all new fish that you plan on adding to your system.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/">Check out this link</a> and do some homework on how to treat sick fish and how to prevent sick fish from spreading problems in your main tank.

I highly doubt the calcium and magnesium additives have anything to do with the diseased fish.

 

[cahalbach]

zachxlutz;1112100 wrote: You need to set up a QT tank and pull all your fish from the main tank and leave it fallow (fishless) for 72 days. Treat the fish in the QT with required medications and then begin a QT process for all new fish that you plan on adding to your system.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/">Check out this link</a> and do some homework on how to treat sick fish and how to prevent sick fish from spreading problems in your main tank.

I highly doubt the calcium and magnesium additives have anything to do with the diseased fish.[/QUOTE]



Thank you


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[brandonmason]

Casey, sorry to have been busy, here's what I know. As fast as it's moved through your system it could very well be brook. The problem is though once it's determined to be brook it's usually to late to slow down. This doesn't mean you'll loose any more, but it doesn't mean you will either. The best thing to do now is not panic and add more stress. Seeing as you don't have a qt (most of us do not), here's what I suggest. Continue to feed the meds you've got twice a day. (Make sure not to overfeed, just enough that everyone eats) cut your light timers back to just running 5 to 6 hours a day. This will be enough for the corals and inverts. Do your best to keep your hands out of the tank. Just continue to do your water changes as normal.

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[cahalbach]

Thank you!


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[jennm]

I doubt the calcium/magnesium supplements directly caused the outbreak but they could have created a parameter shift that stressed the fish which accelerated the problems.

Let's go right to the beginning...

60-Gallon tank - how long has it been up and running and what are the current parameters? Temperature, specific gravity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, alkalinity, Calcium if you have it, and phosphate? (And Magnesium just for fun if you have a test kit for it?)

The first 7 parameters I listed are relevant to fishes, the latter 3 are more important for corals.

At the VERY least you should have reliable tests or devices for Temp, SG, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't, please make those your next purchases.

If it's indeed Brooklynella, you need to get ALL remaining fishes into a quarantine tank and treat with a Formalin based medication (Formalin3 or Hikari Ich-X for saltwater are my preferences). If you don't do this, you're just wasting time and money and fishes. Even fishes that don't show symptoms can carry it and reinfect other fishes. I'm speaking from painful personal experience on that one.

If it's not Brooklynella, Formalin will still treat a variety of ectoparasites including Ich, and Amyloodinium so even if you aren't sure, that's the way I'd recommend going.

Leave the display fishless for a couple of months.

Going forward, quarantine ALL fishes first before they go into the display. No exceptions.

It's unfortunate that this has happened, but it happens to just about everyone, sooner or later.

Jenn

 

[cahalbach]

Thank you, however, I do not have a QT tank to move these fish


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[jennm]

Then do not add any more fish. The ones that don't succumb, will continue to carry the pathogen even though they are asymptomatic, unless they are treated. Any new fishes that are introduced will become infested too, whether or not they show symptoms. Without breaking the life cycle of the pathogen, failure is inevitable.

Jenn

 

[cahalbach]

So your saying I can never add any new fish? I was told I needed to wait 9 weeks. We are assuming it was ich or brook. It's hard to tell which but it did cause death of 7 fish in 3 days


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[jennm]

If you still have fish in the display, they are potential carriers. I have seen fish never show a symptom, but still carry the pathogen and infect new fish introduced to the system - even when they were quarantined first. (I owned my own LFS I have a ton of experience in what can go wrong...)

If you leave your display fishless, you have a better chance of eradicating whatever it was (after 2 months or so...) but if you reintroduce fishes that are carrying something, and you don't treat it, you're back to square one.

Most stores don't quarantine. Even those that do, quarantine batches of fish, not individual specimens, so there is *always* the potential to bring home a sick fish. It only takes one to wipe out a tank. Quarantining at the hobbyist level seriously reduces the risk of having what just happened to you, from happening again.

A few dollars invested in a vessel to quarantine new acquisitions, will save you a ton of money and frustration in the long run. It's all about priorities. For less than the cost of a Powder Blue you can set yourself a decent, simple quarantine that will prevent sick fish from bringing their 'sick' into the display.

Most of us learn this the hard way.

Jenn

 

[cahalbach]

While I understand that I currently don't have a quarantine tank. I understand it may not cost much but either way, today as it stands there is not one in my possession. I was just asking if you were saying from now to eternity no more fish with me not removing my current fish. I know and understand you used to own your own LFS. I also know and understand most LFD don't quarantine, many in this hobby don't. I understand we learn from our mistakes that is a life lesson we learn with everything. I also don't need to have someone assume my priorities. I appreciate you taking time to explain this. I truly do. Nor do I expect anyone to understand or care how I must feel about the situation at hand. I am learning, I am trying, and will get it together. I feel horrible about what happened. I know I made mistakes. My tank won't be textbook, my life isn't textbook. But I just wanted advice on what others have done in this situation. Others in my similar situation. Which you gave me yours and I appreciate that. But to me dooms day has come and gone and I am in correction mode with what I can do today that I have here with me. Thank you again.


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[jennm]

My comment about priorities was a generalization. If you felt singled out, I apologize, that was not my intention.

I spend a LOT of time here and I've spent a lot of years helping fellow hobbyists out. The advice is free, take it or leave it, it doesn't hurt my feelings

To clarify my earlier statement: The fish you have now that have been exposed to the parasite/protozoan/whatever is going on, are all now carriers or potential carriers. Even if they show no symptoms, they have the potential to pass it on to the next new fish you introduce, no matter when that is. Whether it's now, next week, or next year.

I learned the hard way that even one fish, not properly treated, can infect or reinfect the other fishes that were treated. Example - I had an outbreak and removed all of the sick fish from a system, but left a couple that had zero symptoms. Treated the sickies in a separate hospital system, and some weeks later, I returned the surviving, treated fish, back to the main system. In no time, some were sick again. The only way I was able to fix the issue was to treat ALL of the fish, leave the system without fish for about 4 weeks, and then only introduce fish that had been treated (and later, new fishes that had been appropriately quarantined.)

That's my suggestion. If you still decide to try a different way, that's certainly your prerogative.

I'll leave you to it

Jenn

 

[cahalbach]

Thank you for the info! I appreciate it.


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