ich? brooklynella? help please :/

[lepecube00]

I have a biocube 29 that has 2 true percula clownfish in it. I found out close to a week ago they had gotten ich. I was very paniced but since they were still eating and i did not have a quarenteen tank i figured they would make it through. I was wrong they slowly got worse and eventually the female began to die. She was swimming sideways and not very well and her spots kept getting larger and more spread. My cleaner shrimp took advantage of this by eating the parasites off.. which made matters worse as he was picking at her eyes. So yesterday i quickly set up a QT and began copper treatment. All was fine and the ich seemed to be going away. I get home to find that the female is very puffed up with mucus coat and has already shedded one that is on the ground. Her fins are not out and she is not swimming well and staying close to the surface. Now besides all this my problem is that the female may not make it through the night and since lfs is not open because of the time i do not have formaline to treat them and i do not know if you can treat with copper and formaline at the same time. The male clownfish does not show any signs of brooklynella and as far as i can tell is cured of all the white spots although i know ich has a 5 week life cycle. Should i put the male back in the main tank to prevent brooklynella?
-Thanks an advance for your responces - Mitch

 

[jennm]

You can't use copper and formalin at the same time.

Don't put the male back in the DT - if he's exposed, he's already carrying it.

When in doubt about either Brook or Ich I suggest using Hikari Ich-X - it contains Formalin and addresses both ailments at the same time.

You'd have to start all over with new QT water etc., because copper and formalin will interact with each other.

Jenn

 

[lepecube00]

So... The clowns are still in the copper QT tank. Would it be ok to take the fish out and clean the tank of copper then put formaline in and the fish? The female probably wont make it until tonight when my mom can go to the store. She didnt eat last night or this morning.. :/ Thank you Jenn, you seem very knowelegable on this subject.
-Mitch

 

[jennm]

Empty out the water and any absorbent media that might contain the copper.

What product did you use?

A fish not eating for a day or two is not a huge deal but given the other symptoms, it may well be too late for her.

Jenn

 

[KrisDeitz]

Took to pm. Listen to Jenn Mitch and I'd call her bud

 

[jennm]

I'm a tool? :lol: (Yeah I know that didn't come out right...)
I do sell... after all that's my profession, but not every sale is a good one - perhaps that's what you meant too

2 days is not sufficient to quarantine, it can take longer than that for problems to become apparent.

Have you spoken to the dealer where you got the fish to see if they've had any issues? That might glean a bit more information.

I would remove and quarantine/treat ALL the fish in the display at this point. Some can carry the protozoan but not exhibit symptoms. If you leave a carrier in there, and then re-introduce vulnerable fish, they can become re-infested.

Jenn

 

[lepecube00]

They are the only fish in there.. im at school im not sure how the fish are doing and i wont be able to do anything with the tank until 6 tonight. I dont remember the name of the copper product but the lfs said that if i put some carbon thingy in there it would absorb the copper??

 

[jennm]

Sounds like Cupramine. If so, that's good. It won't treat the Brook but it's fairly easy to remove.

Jenn

 

[lepecube00]

So take out the copper while the fish are in there??? Then get formaline? The female wasnt swimming well or eating this morning. The male still seemed fine. Cupramine sounds right.

 

[jennm]

Personally, I would start with new water. Best to take aged water out of your display to replace QT water, and then refill the display with new saltwater. Clean out the QT, discard any media and begin all over. You don't want residual copper left in there in the media or whatnot, that could interact with the Formalin. This may involve letting there be a few days between, as the fish will already be stressed from going from one stressful treatment to another.

There's no good/easy transition, IMO in this case. It may be too late for one fish - possibly for the other too.

 

[KrisDeitz]

Yes I also think it may be to late. I lost mine to brook in two days.

Once you clear everything and if you save them just let the tank sit for a few weeks. Don't add nothing. You can start qt new fish but add nothing to the dt.

 

[lepecube00]

So while i was at school the female died... My mom freaked out and threw the other clownfish back in the DT thinking that it would get sick from the nasty water... Should i leave him in there and clean the QT tank out as well as get rid of the copper in it. Then get fresh water from the display tank and formaline from lfs? This guy looks very healthy and only shows a few white spots on him which is why i thought it was ich not brooklynella...

 

[toccoa fish man]

Clowns get sick with brooklynella and ich worse than just about any other fish (at least the ones I've had seem to). I think the parasite likes the heavy layer of mucus on their skin. I've got 2 pair of clowns now, which replaced a nice breeding pair of perculas that died from ich before them. The very best product on the market is called PARAGUARD. It's light on the heavy toxic copper stuff. You can order it online. Just google it. It is basically just short of a miracle product. I've had it cure several fish in a few days time, and some of them were a day or two away from the fish grim reaper.

Set up a quarantine tank and get that male clown the heck out of your regular display tank. Keep him in the quarantine tank for several weeks until every spot is gone. Change the water multiple times during the quarantine. You can also make an emergency dip with freshwater and several capfuls of paraguard. Just don't EVER leave them in for more than 4 minutes. Also understand going in that the fish will lay over on its side. This is normal, but again, don't EVER leave them in the freshwater dip for more than 4 minutes. The freshwater will cause the parasites in the skin to osmotically burst. Then the paraguard will hit them with another shot.

Edit: Don't EVER put ANY copper product in a display tank, because it will kill corals and invertebrates quickly. Shrimp and crabs are especially sensitive to copper. In my book, it's better to lose several fish (or quarantine them for a couple of months) rather than lose inverts. Inverts are much more expensive and take more time to get and to recover. So unless you're trying to save a rare Angel or a Blue Devil Betta Grouper or something that costs hundreds of dollars, then leave the tank alone and get the fish out.

 

[lepecube00]

Id like to say thank you to my lfs. They have kindly taken in the surviving clown for treatment. I didnt want this little guy to die. Hopefully he will get better. I just couldnt handle the stress of it and was already attached to these guys after only having them for a few weeks. Thank you for all the help also jenn, kris, and toccoa i appreactiate the help and hopefully i will be better prepared if/when another fish outbreak occurs.
-Mitch