Ich problem - HELP!!!!

kleem

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I've been keeping a fish-only tank for the last 6 years and have NEVER had an issue with disease - nor ever used copper. I have a 120 gal aquarium: Wet/dry, UV, protein skimmer and succesfully kept inverts several years ago. I have recently made several changes to the tank to "update" it and try to get a little better water quality. I bought a new skimmer, added a phosphate reactor, got a new wet/dry, and started experimenting with a coil nitrate reactor to try and bring my nitrates lower. They are currently at about 25 but the reactor needs several months to start working and nothing has changed in the water tests since starting it 2 weeks ago (as expected).

Now the problems. I have a blue Tang that started showing signs of ich about 5 - 6 days ago. It would come and go and would at times look like it was gone. I raised the water temp to about 82 and have left it there for the last 3 days - thinking I had helped the issue. My SG is low (around 1.020) which is where I typically keep it. Over the last month or so I've added several new fish - which is were I presume I picked up the disease.

Last night my Tang was COVERED in spots, my Anthias was dead, and my copperband butterfly is swimming in circles. This morning he's about gone and a cardinal is dead.

About 10 last night I finally (reluctantly) added some Cupparmine - about 12 ml. Does anyone have any other recommendations? Someone had recomended Kick Ich but I couldn't find it in short order and was told the Cuparmine worked just as good by a local store - and it was easy to remove from the tank. Also, how quickly will/can it cure the problem and when is it safe to add new fish?

Unfortunately, thinking my problem was gone yesterday morning, I placed an order for an Emperor Angel and several other new fish. I expect them in by about Wednesday. I've spent about $700 on my tank with this "update" and now am having problems I've never had before. I don't believe this is the problem but I'm obviously frusterated at this point.

All my water tests look good. HELP????

Mark

Does
 
i agree,,maybe a 50 % water change or several smaller changes over the next couple of days....i definatly would not add the new fish to the tank, you'll loose them just as quick, secondary to the stress of shipping then being placed in a tank which is not stable...i recomend using a quarentine tank for the new fish untill everytihng is back to normal. cont using the copper as long as you have no inverts or coral,,,check the levels with a copper kit so they are not elevated. Try calling your vet and getting a presciption for metronidazole ..crush up a tab and place in their food or coat the small pieces in garlic (ie from kent) so the fish eat it....just a couple of things off the top of my head....let me know if you cant get the metronidazole....
 
I can certainly do a water change - and I'll start it immediately but my water parameters haven't changed (that I know of) for the last several months. I know all of the changes to my tank could have affected it but my tests say they haven't. At least as far as PH, Nitrate, Ammonia, and SG goes. I have been doing 40% water changes monthly for the last 6 months or so to keep my nitrates down.

BTW, the cooperband is on it's last leg - hasn't moved for awhile and it nose-up. Do you recommend pulling it out ... is there any chance of survival? It's still breathing but not moving at this point. I've never seen a fish come back from something like this.

Yes, I add Superbuffer fairly regularly as prescribed - but this hasn't changed in 3 years. I DID allow the temp to raise from about 78 to 82 - was told this may help with the ich. Think I should drop it back down?

Thanks for the input.

Mark
 
I don't measure KdH. I just mix my salt with dionized water in a 40 gal trash can (new) and change out about 40 gals at a time. But I've done it this way for 4 years and never had a problem.

Also, I just add my chemicals directly to the sump - again, just like always. However, the only "chemical" I ever really add is Kent superbuffer. And I haven't done a water change since just before Christmas. So again, not really sure why things changed all of a sudden. Don't really have a way to hook up a quaranteen tank (that I can think of).

I'm working on a water change as we speak.
 
Ich... I had problems in my fish only as well---in the beginning. 1.020 is not low enough, I ran my tank at 1.014 for nearly a month. I also stepped up and purchased a UV light to help out during this crisis.

If you do the research you will fing that yo need to lower the sp gravity and raise the temp if able. This speeds up the parasites life cyle....but you still have to kill it. Osmotic shock will do this. Your copperbanded butterfly is swimming in circles because the parasite is covering his eyes..he will die if you do not immediately do a fresh water dip and lower the salinity.

As someone posted earlier, go to Walmart and get a 10 gal tank, heater and mechanical filter or prism skimmer-this is what I use, and NEVER put any fish in your establish system unitl it goes through the 4 - 6 week quarantine process. The new angel will do fine in a small tank as long as he is Juv., just make sure you give him algae to eat as well as spirulina enriched mysis or pellets, etc...He needs both to be healthy/to prevent HLLE.

For such a small amount of $ and time, you will never have to go through these losses again! Good Luck!
 
I do have a UV in the system but the copper directions say turn off while using the copper. I can easily drop the SG during the water change and sounds like I should keep the temp up around 82.

Never done a freshwater dip before but at this point the butterfly's not going to make it anyway. How long do I leave him in?

Interestingly enough, the Blue Tank is the ONLY fish showing signs of Ich but he's swimming around like nothing is wrong.
 
Ooops, now you have me saying it reef1973 ... I also meant tang and NOT tank....
 
From what I have read in books and online (CHECK http://WWW.WETWEBMEDIA.com)">WWW.WETWEBMEDIA.com)</a>, leave the fish in the freshwater until he shows signs of stress....this is different for every fish. Depending on how old your butterfly is and degree of infection, I'd say at least a few minutes.

I have never used copper treatments in my display tanks before, so I'd stick to the directions.

Mike
 
mfliin wrote: (CHECK http://www.WETWEBMEDIA.com),">WWW.WETWEBMEDIA.com),</a>[/QUOTE]

Best advice yet!!!! I love that site, it is a life saver.


[QUOTE=]
leave the fish in the freshwater until he shows signs of stress....this is different for every fish.
[/QUOTE]

I am not so sure that a FW dip won't kill the fish out right... It can be very stressful to an already stressed out fish.
 
The higher tank temp can certainly be a stressor for the fish. Not necessarily because it's too hot, but because it dramatically reduced the amount of oxygen in the water column.

There's another thread here about adding copper to the display tank- be sure you are aware of all the consequences.
 
Thanks all for the input. I finished a water change last night about 10 and have lowered the SG to 1.018. Also, I'm keeping the temp at about 82.

The copperband died but all the rest of the fish look OK. I lost a Anthias, butterfly and Cardinal. All the rest look better and the Blue Tang looks better today. I added Cupramine and will use as directed.

If anybody else has any other suggested things to do - I'm open. I'm not planning a FW dip unless I see an outbreak again. I plan to keep the Cupramine in there for about 18 days.

Thanks again for all the posts!
 
Tank is definitely Fish only. Don't even have any live rock. Problem with the copper is testing with ANY accuracy, as I've come to find out. I have been treating with Cupermine but the Sea-chem test kits I've tried (2 of them) have neither one worked properly. They come with a test sample to use for checking the accuracy of the test and both kits registered a "0" when the supplied sample was suppose to be at .05.

Still not really sure what to do. All the remaining fish (8 of them) are starting to look worse. The only fish showing actual signs of Ich is the blue tang - and he's still got a lot of spots. I dosed the tank (120 Gals) with 12 ml on Friday, did a 40% water change on Saturday and added another 6 ml of Cupermine. Added another full dose Sunday night (12 ml). And again tonight (Tuesday). At this point I'm just guessing b/c none of the other 2 kits appear to test correctly.

I've been thinking of pulling all the fish out to a Hospital tank and controlling the copper better there. The one concern is a Hawaiian Puffer - not sure about treating him with copper. He's the only fish not showing any signs of trouble - actually him and the 2 clown fish.

A great side note: Saltwaterfish.com notified me my order was backordered so the new fish aren't coming. I've asked to stop the entire shipment. Last problem is that I'm heading out of town Thursday - Saturday.

Whew, it's been a tough week for the tank - and my wallet.
 
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