In defense of selling the occasional frag
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Wolfie, I have to strongly disagree with you on the $5 frags.
$5 for a frag of anything is a steal. If it's healthy and looks good, I think it is a great price. Basically a token price, to make something back on it and also to try and weed out the freebie mooches.
I agree about getting free frags and then turning around and selling them for profit. You are trying to make money on other people's generosity and kindness and that's not right, IMO.
Nobody forces anyone to buy frags here, so us as "ARC Members" have no special duty to protect everyone from people who decide to overcharge, in our eyes. I think everyone needs to make their own decision and if they need help, then they should ask for it and ask whether the price is fair for what they are getting. No one, by any means, should call out anyone else for having a price too high for something. Just b/c it seems high to you, it might be a bargain to someone else.
If someone buys it, then obviously the price was right for them. If you think it's too high, then pass on it, but don't comment in their thread, telling them what you think, b/c that's not right. If no one buys it, then they will get the idea that maybe they are asking too much for it.
Just how I see things.
$5 for a frag of anything is a steal. If it's healthy and looks good, I think it is a great price. Basically a token price, to make something back on it and also to try and weed out the freebie mooches.
I agree about getting free frags and then turning around and selling them for profit. You are trying to make money on other people's generosity and kindness and that's not right, IMO.
Nobody forces anyone to buy frags here, so us as "ARC Members" have no special duty to protect everyone from people who decide to overcharge, in our eyes. I think everyone needs to make their own decision and if they need help, then they should ask for it and ask whether the price is fair for what they are getting. No one, by any means, should call out anyone else for having a price too high for something. Just b/c it seems high to you, it might be a bargain to someone else.
If someone buys it, then obviously the price was right for them. If you think it's too high, then pass on it, but don't comment in their thread, telling them what you think, b/c that's not right. If no one buys it, then they will get the idea that maybe they are asking too much for it.
Just how I see things.
Mark, it is good to see you in the forums and I am glad you brought the topic back. The previous thread closed before I could really jump in.
I will first introduce myself to those of you who do not know me. My name is Mike. I am extremely new to the hobby. As a matter of fact, I bought my tank a year ago and I am still collecting equipment and knowledge. I hope to have water in it by the end of spring. I have always wanted to start a saltwater reef tank. I have just been reef shy due to the amount of money and time necessary to do the tank "right the first time".(Whatever that means).
So why have I decided to take the plunge now? One day last year, my neighbor, crazy lunatic reefer
(Simon.Kruger) asked for help to get his 700 gallon sump into his basement. A few days later, I discovered that a co-worker/friend(MarkV) was not only a reefer but he had a degree in Marine Biology. Sorry Mark, I hope I did not blow your cover. I took this as as a sign. Also, if I had any chance to be a successful reefer, it would be now.
Since joining the club I have only been able to attend a few meetings. However, I have read these forums and witnessed the generosity and kindness of many club members. I have been able to contribute myself by helping some people in the club already. Long ago, I realized that it feels good to help people, not to mention I typically learn something in the process.
I am excited about the possibility of watching my piece of the ocean grow in my home. I can only hope that I am able to provide the proper care for corals to grow with abundance. Of course, if that happens I will need to find some friends that have space for frags.
Mike
I will first introduce myself to those of you who do not know me. My name is Mike. I am extremely new to the hobby. As a matter of fact, I bought my tank a year ago and I am still collecting equipment and knowledge. I hope to have water in it by the end of spring. I have always wanted to start a saltwater reef tank. I have just been reef shy due to the amount of money and time necessary to do the tank "right the first time".(Whatever that means).
So why have I decided to take the plunge now? One day last year, my neighbor, crazy lunatic reefer
(Simon.Kruger) asked for help to get his 700 gallon sump into his basement. A few days later, I discovered that a co-worker/friend(MarkV) was not only a reefer but he had a degree in Marine Biology. Sorry Mark, I hope I did not blow your cover. I took this as as a sign. Also, if I had any chance to be a successful reefer, it would be now.Since joining the club I have only been able to attend a few meetings. However, I have read these forums and witnessed the generosity and kindness of many club members. I have been able to contribute myself by helping some people in the club already. Long ago, I realized that it feels good to help people, not to mention I typically learn something in the process.
I am excited about the possibility of watching my piece of the ocean grow in my home. I can only hope that I am able to provide the proper care for corals to grow with abundance. Of course, if that happens I will need to find some friends that have space for frags.
Mike
Here is my 2 cents on this whole subject.
There is nothing wrong with selling your frags, and there is nothing wrong with trading or giving frags. I myself have spent over 100.00 for a 1/2-1" frag . Once It finaly grows to where I can frag it I might sell a frag to help recover the cost of it or the up keep of the tank it is in. I know myself and other have well into the thousands of dollars into there system , I would not even want to start and put a number on how much I hve spent in this hobby over the last 16 years. Who realy cares if people sell, trade or give frags away. My thought is , if someone sells a frag and the person buying the frag are happy so be it. I know I have given,traded , and sold frags . My though is I would rather buy a frag from someone that has grown it in there own tank they buy a frag from my LFS . Atleast that way I am not getting corals straight off the reef and taking away from what is there in the wild. Questions I have for people that think we shouldnt sell our frags or we should support our LFS. 1 how well do you think the LFS takes care of there corals do you think they insepect them all the time for pest. 2 do you think the LFS realy cares about the bleaching coral reefs in the wild . 3 Do you realy think the LFS doent make a profit off the coral sale to pay for there bills the aquarier for housing the corals. So why not spend the money with fellow reefers and help them pay there ecletric bills or salt bill, or even to buy new bulbs, atleast the fellow reefer if selling home grown not wild. Dont get me wrong I do buy corals from my LFS if they have a piece that I just have to have . I know CapBay and Marine Fish have gotten there share of my money over the last few years. Last food for thought for the people that think we shouldnt sell frags. Whats going to happen to this hobby when they put a world band on harvesting wild corals. The only choice you are going to have is to buy from coral frams or other reefers. So start supporting you local reefers so we can keep this hobby for US.
Brad
There is nothing wrong with selling your frags, and there is nothing wrong with trading or giving frags. I myself have spent over 100.00 for a 1/2-1" frag . Once It finaly grows to where I can frag it I might sell a frag to help recover the cost of it or the up keep of the tank it is in. I know myself and other have well into the thousands of dollars into there system , I would not even want to start and put a number on how much I hve spent in this hobby over the last 16 years. Who realy cares if people sell, trade or give frags away. My thought is , if someone sells a frag and the person buying the frag are happy so be it. I know I have given,traded , and sold frags . My though is I would rather buy a frag from someone that has grown it in there own tank they buy a frag from my LFS . Atleast that way I am not getting corals straight off the reef and taking away from what is there in the wild. Questions I have for people that think we shouldnt sell our frags or we should support our LFS. 1 how well do you think the LFS takes care of there corals do you think they insepect them all the time for pest. 2 do you think the LFS realy cares about the bleaching coral reefs in the wild . 3 Do you realy think the LFS doent make a profit off the coral sale to pay for there bills the aquarier for housing the corals. So why not spend the money with fellow reefers and help them pay there ecletric bills or salt bill, or even to buy new bulbs, atleast the fellow reefer if selling home grown not wild. Dont get me wrong I do buy corals from my LFS if they have a piece that I just have to have . I know CapBay and Marine Fish have gotten there share of my money over the last few years. Last food for thought for the people that think we shouldnt sell frags. Whats going to happen to this hobby when they put a world band on harvesting wild corals. The only choice you are going to have is to buy from coral frams or other reefers. So start supporting you local reefers so we can keep this hobby for US.
Brad
As a newbie to all of this and as one that apparently did nothing right since all my fish have ick......fick (am i the only on that finds "fick" funny? Do you even get it?), I have to say that I am kind of glad that no one has given me any livestock for free because I would feel like a complete jerk knowing that I didnt care for it properly.....
Nonetheless, I would very much appreciate anything that was ever given to me and I am totally the type to say no to something that I know would not do well in my tank even if it was offered to me for free (ok , except for the mandarin cause seriously it would have died if I didnt take it). In fact, I am more likely to pay for something that I think may not do well in my tank if I really want it because if it dies then I can only be mad at myself and I won't feel guilty that I killed someone elses stuff.
Now here is the point, offer me a frag for however much you want.....if I think it's too much I won't pay for it......Give me a frag and I would have the decency to tell you, look I don't think my tank is ready for that right now.....or if I wasnt sure, I'd tell you my tank history and then let you decide....I would never ever lie and say I'll take it, if I know its going to die....however, if my tank was ready, I'd say thanks and will gladly do my best to return the favor....if I have nothing "reefy" to give you beacuse I am new, I'll buy you a beer or a Pepsi if you don't drink.....
I really dont care who is selling and who is giving.....Ill gladly pay for something if I think it's worth it and if I can afford it. And like eveyone on here has said, as long as they are good people selling, then sell, sell, sell. If we become friends then feel free to give it to me or not....either way as long as I know you are being fair I don't care......and if you are trying to rip me off thats fine too....I probaly wont befriend you and I'll tell everyone on here that you are a rip off but hey, thats your choice to be a rip off....just know that you have to live with the consequences.
From what I can tell, id say 99% of the prices that people sell things for on this forum are pretty **** good......no one is forcing you to buy it so if you dont want to then don't.
I agree that giving is great, and if you are someone who can do so or simply likes to do so, I think thats great.....but there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling!
As for me, If I had anything to give away I would....but I would absolutely also sell stuff if I had stuff to sell.....one thing I would never do though is overcharge! and more importantly, I would also never take advantage of someone who is giving stuff away....
Anyway, I have six ick covered fish....I'll sell them all for $500......any takers?
Nonetheless, I would very much appreciate anything that was ever given to me and I am totally the type to say no to something that I know would not do well in my tank even if it was offered to me for free (ok , except for the mandarin cause seriously it would have died if I didnt take it). In fact, I am more likely to pay for something that I think may not do well in my tank if I really want it because if it dies then I can only be mad at myself and I won't feel guilty that I killed someone elses stuff.
Now here is the point, offer me a frag for however much you want.....if I think it's too much I won't pay for it......Give me a frag and I would have the decency to tell you, look I don't think my tank is ready for that right now.....or if I wasnt sure, I'd tell you my tank history and then let you decide....I would never ever lie and say I'll take it, if I know its going to die....however, if my tank was ready, I'd say thanks and will gladly do my best to return the favor....if I have nothing "reefy" to give you beacuse I am new, I'll buy you a beer or a Pepsi if you don't drink.....
I really dont care who is selling and who is giving.....Ill gladly pay for something if I think it's worth it and if I can afford it. And like eveyone on here has said, as long as they are good people selling, then sell, sell, sell. If we become friends then feel free to give it to me or not....either way as long as I know you are being fair I don't care......and if you are trying to rip me off thats fine too....I probaly wont befriend you and I'll tell everyone on here that you are a rip off but hey, thats your choice to be a rip off....just know that you have to live with the consequences.
From what I can tell, id say 99% of the prices that people sell things for on this forum are pretty **** good......no one is forcing you to buy it so if you dont want to then don't.
I agree that giving is great, and if you are someone who can do so or simply likes to do so, I think thats great.....but there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling!
As for me, If I had anything to give away I would....but I would absolutely also sell stuff if I had stuff to sell.....one thing I would never do though is overcharge! and more importantly, I would also never take advantage of someone who is giving stuff away....
Anyway, I have six ick covered fish....I'll sell them all for $500......any takers?
fyi,.. I had a good chuckle at the fick thing ...lol
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Interesting read to say the least!
My 2 cents....
We all do this hobby because we love it. We all have invested lots of our money, time and sweat into making our tanks into our own "piece of the ocean". To support our habit and to help conserve our natural reefs we grow our corals and either trade, give-away of sell them to other reefers. This not only helps a reefer to recover some of the costs of their own habit, but since no one really charges outrageous prices for their frags, unless rare (and worth the price), it helps the newby of our hobby. This process is good for everyone involved. If someone buys a frag and then turn around and sells it to someone else, that is their choice. If you give someone a frag and then they sell it to someone else, then you really should reconsider to whom you are being so generous. Integrity is not part of everyones morals, some lack it for sure and for those that do not have any, it will be clearly known. We all have a powerful gift that is rarely used....choice....use it and all will come out in the end. And if we monitor those that are on ARC and make sure people are not being taken advantage of, then that's about all we can do. If someone screws you, just let everyone know thier lack of integrity and I am sure no one will buy anything from them again. If you are buying something from someone and are unsure, ask one of the board members, or someone you respect their opinion and then make your choice. Easy as 1-2-3...! End ramble!
My 2 cents....
We all do this hobby because we love it. We all have invested lots of our money, time and sweat into making our tanks into our own "piece of the ocean". To support our habit and to help conserve our natural reefs we grow our corals and either trade, give-away of sell them to other reefers. This not only helps a reefer to recover some of the costs of their own habit, but since no one really charges outrageous prices for their frags, unless rare (and worth the price), it helps the newby of our hobby. This process is good for everyone involved. If someone buys a frag and then turn around and sells it to someone else, that is their choice. If you give someone a frag and then they sell it to someone else, then you really should reconsider to whom you are being so generous. Integrity is not part of everyones morals, some lack it for sure and for those that do not have any, it will be clearly known. We all have a powerful gift that is rarely used....choice....use it and all will come out in the end. And if we monitor those that are on ARC and make sure people are not being taken advantage of, then that's about all we can do. If someone screws you, just let everyone know thier lack of integrity and I am sure no one will buy anything from them again. If you are buying something from someone and are unsure, ask one of the board members, or someone you respect their opinion and then make your choice. Easy as 1-2-3...! End ramble!
i don't have much to add to the conversation because it's already been said so well and in many ways by others.
i think that for people who charge for frags, and how much they ask for...that's too subjective to really judge, especially considering the money that person originally paid. to someone who's new to the hobby a price may be unreasonable, but to others its a deal. if it's really too highly priced, it just won't sell and the issue fixes itself. ultimately, i certainly can't blame anyone for wanting to ask for a few bucks -- the value is in the eye of the beholder.
personally, what i have found really great though, is the fostering of a sense of friendship and community through dealing frags. every person i've made a transaction with - be it for money, trade, or free - ended up giving me more than i could have hoped for. i specifically remember going to a few member's homes with one ziplock bag to pay for a single frag and leaving with 6 or 7 that i was given without charge, or even a bucket of things. that act of giving like that is pretty powerful and i hope to return the favor as soon as i have something to give back! i think that no matter what price is asked, you're making a connection with that person and that's important.
in regards to freebies -- i think it's also important on the RECIEVER's part to show respect and intellegence in their decision. don't take what you know you can't keep, make an effort to get to know whoever is giving you something and try to give back! its a win-win situation for all of us that way.
i think that for people who charge for frags, and how much they ask for...that's too subjective to really judge, especially considering the money that person originally paid. to someone who's new to the hobby a price may be unreasonable, but to others its a deal. if it's really too highly priced, it just won't sell and the issue fixes itself. ultimately, i certainly can't blame anyone for wanting to ask for a few bucks -- the value is in the eye of the beholder.
personally, what i have found really great though, is the fostering of a sense of friendship and community through dealing frags. every person i've made a transaction with - be it for money, trade, or free - ended up giving me more than i could have hoped for. i specifically remember going to a few member's homes with one ziplock bag to pay for a single frag and leaving with 6 or 7 that i was given without charge, or even a bucket of things. that act of giving like that is pretty powerful and i hope to return the favor as soon as i have something to give back! i think that no matter what price is asked, you're making a connection with that person and that's important.
in regards to freebies -- i think it's also important on the RECIEVER's part to show respect and intellegence in their decision. don't take what you know you can't keep, make an effort to get to know whoever is giving you something and try to give back! its a win-win situation for all of us that way.
thanks for the chuckle at "fick" piznac.....that means you would also like jokes like:
What type of fish plays music?..................a TUNE-A fish. haha....ok i'm done.
Any takers on the 6 ick fish for $500......good deal guys.....it's gonna go quick....
What type of fish plays music?..................a TUNE-A fish. haha....ok i'm done.
Any takers on the 6 ick fish for $500......good deal guys.....it's gonna go quick....
I have been wondering why every experienced SPS keeper that I have met has tried to offer me free frags of Monti Cap. Now I think I understand.
It's all a conspiracy!
A conspiracy to plant the seed into my head that I need an SPS tank.
If I had an SPS tank, then I could have cool corals like Monti Cap for free...</em>
Yeah.... I need an SPS tank! I've done softies and LPS and nanos long enough.... So when I have one, I'll get the free Monti Caps and all kinds of other cool SPS to trade for other cool SPS and so on and so forth....</em>
I like the way you folks operate. Keep it up.
It's all a conspiracy!
A conspiracy to plant the seed into my head that I need an SPS tank.
If I had an SPS tank, then I could have cool corals like Monti Cap for free...</em>
Yeah.... I need an SPS tank! I've done softies and LPS and nanos long enough.... So when I have one, I'll get the free Monti Caps and all kinds of other cool SPS to trade for other cool SPS and so on and so forth....</em>
I like the way you folks operate. Keep it up.
Dakota - ya at least your figured it out first. It took me a while after I had several in the tank. Tonight I count 39 SPS including small frags
Tonight I count 39 SPS including small frags Similar threads
