In need of some advice, Please and Thank you (:

[ichthyoid]

How long would you recommend letting the tank be empty with proper parameters before adding any livestock?


First, to answer your question-
As long as your nitrogen cycle has completed (you will begin to see 'some' nitrate) then you can begin adding livestock (after your first water change, and do 10%). I recommend adding things slowly. On a small system that means 1 or 2 fish at a time. Then wait several days before adding more. This allows the system time to adjust to the increase in bioload.


Additional thoughts/comments-
You mentioned adding a clean up crew first, what are they going to clean up?
What will your clean up crew consist of, crabs, snails, shrimp, all of these? How many of each? Will you add them all at once, or in stages?
What do you plan to use to provide ammonia to cycle your tank?
Will you use a bacteria supplement to help cycle, or go au natural?
These are some questions you should consider carefully before you begin. There are several ways to start a tank, and many opinions. Be sure to choose your methods carefully.


Also, be sure to control feeding. I try to feed so that very little food actually reaches the bottom of the tank. I also turn off the flow in the tank before feeding, as this helps. That means you add small amounts slowly, over several minutes. This is the one place I see most reefkeepers get into trouble. You would think I starve my fish by the small amounts I use, but the fish are healthy, happy and always ready to eat. No biscuits and gravy for my fish! Limiting the food they get will help limit the increase in nutrients and keep the system more stable. This ultimately reduces the amount of maintenance required by you.


As soon as the nitrogen cycle is completed, begin doing water changes. I suggest that you consider doing 5-10% per week. The lower bioload systems/less overfed can get away with 5% per week. Higher bioload (more fish) systems with heavier feeding will need larger water changes. 10% is a good place to begin, if you are unsure. That actually only adds up to about 35% per month, due to a dilution factor. Be very diligent/regular with your system maintenance. If you need to change more than ~10% of the water per week to keep the system stable, you are feeding too much or have too many fish/too much bioload, IMO.


FWIW-
Some things I have learned over the years:
1) The most important thing put into an aquarium is patience.
2) Only bad things happen fast in aquariums, good things take time.
3) Beautiful aquariums require work and discipline. You can use good products, some automation and your intelligence to reduce (but not eliminate) the work needed.


JMHO, good luck!

PS- make very sure that your system has a good skimmer and that it is working well/you understand it!

 

[frantz]

A challenge with reef tanks is the amount of planning required. You mentioned research and that is how I started my tank. In retrospect, planning and then researching the needs of my plans would have helped me out alot. What is your vision for this tank? Starting with a cycle and just adding living things at random can work, but takes alot greater care. If you plan out your tanks growth, even if just by phases, I think you'll have more luck. Good luck and I hope this new tank gives you great joy without too much pain!

 

[redstang]

Frantz;719965 wrote: A challenge with reef tanks is the amount of planning required. You mentioned research and that is how I started my tank. In retrospect, planning and then researching the needs of my plans would have helped me out alot. What is your vision for this tank? Starting with a cycle and just adding living things at random can work, but takes alot greater care. If you plan out your tanks growth, even if just by phases, I think you'll have more luck. Good luck and I hope this new tank gives you great joy without too much pain!

I think planning out a tank, especially in regards to livestock, is the most difficult thing to do as a newcomer to the hobby. Softies, LPS, SPS, NPS, inverts, etc... There are so many choices, and I haven't even listed fish, that it's nearly impossible for newcomers to research everything adequately. I "planned" on no zoa's. Then I got a free play rock and loved the way the paly's swayed in the current. Then I traded that rock for another frag of nicer looking paly's that also had some zoa's on it. Next thing you know I'm spending $60 on more zoa's and completely rethinking my "plan". :wow2:

This is where patience can pay off. If you SLOWLY add things to your tank you'll have more time to expirement. You can overcome lack of experience for the most part by being patient. Find out you don't really like that bird's nest frag? No problem, trade it for something else. Just discover acan's? No worry if you haven't already stuffed your tank full of other things. Same with :fish:. Except I understand they can be difficult to remove! I added a pair of clowns at 7 weeks. A goby and blenny at 11 or 12 weeks. And a six line at 16 weeks or so. I knew that a six line was probable for my tank and I also read that they could be aggressive so I made sure to add it last. Work out your stocking list, that being all the fish you'd consider stocking with, and post it for those with more experience to critique. Then you can plan what order you'll need to add them in.

One thing I wish I would have done sooner is post that I'd like to look at some people's tanks and then looked at 4 or 5 of them before starting mine. Especially if I could have found some nano's to look at in my case. Use their tanks to generate ideas on how you want yours to look. Being there in person allows you to ask many more relevant questions. I remember the first member I met was Barry and I was buying a refractometer off of him. It was great to get a peek at a couple of his tanks, ask questions about sizes, upkeep, and livestock. Invaluable and it only took 30 minutes at his house. My kids loved it too!

Sorry for the ramble!

 

[rdnelson]

RedStang, that was some excellent advice and describes me to a tee. With the exception of visiting other peoples tanks which I would have loved to do. Great advice.

 

[jayroc24]

gthockey18;719851 wrote: The RSM130 is nice my good friend Thai (tqpolo on ARC) had one for a while. I had the RSM250 for about a year. The 130's skimmer and lights are it's weak points. The 250's skimmer is only a little better. Consider getting an Auto Top Off as the skimmer performance is highly dependent on the height of the water in the back chamber and with a little evaporation, the skimmer stops doing its job until you refill with RODI water. One other thing, those tanks are hot boxes. You may have to invest in a small chiller one day to keep your temps down. My RSM250 would run at 82-84 degrees consistently before I got a chiller. Keeping the room temp lower will help and keeping the fan in the back running all the time helps also but then more evaporation occurs. Good luck with it!

Could not agree more! I have a RSM250 the skimmer is a pain!!!! Micro bubbles are my biggest problem, the water level is crucial. Overall a very nice set up though...

 

[gnashty]

wbrown;719931 wrote: Snails and hermits you can temperature acclimate and toss right in. They can handle salinity and pH swings better than fish and corals.

Huh? Inverts are way more sensitive to SG swings than Fish/Coral

**Most invertebrates and marine plants are more sensitive than fish to salinity changes. It is imperative to acclimate invertebrates to a specific gravity of 1.023-1.025 or severe stress or trauma may result.**

 

[wbrown]

I found someone more knowledgeable to disagree for me
From reefcleaners website:
1. Float the bag in your tank to get the snail used to the temperature in your aquarium.

2. Wait 15 minutes.

3. Add animals to the tank, discard shipping water and any towels used in the packaging.

Important: Snails may go through shock during shipping, and be closed when they arrive. You should give them plenty of time to come out of their shells and move around before deciding they didn't make the trip. Ceriths may go dormant for up to 3 days.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we now ask our customers to use this procedure is because our snails and crabs live intertidally, and can handle swings in ph/salinity without a problem. However, what they can't handle is toxic levels of ammonia. During the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the ph level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal ph is introduced to the shipping bags, and the ph rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this and certainly never let livestock sit out in buckets with shipping water exposed to fresh air for a long period of time, we know of no surer way to kill your new arrivals. Any other method of acclimation voids the Alive Arrival Guarantee. It is an easy method of acclimation and it works fine, please follow it.

 

[gnashty]

wbrown;720197 wrote: I found someone more knowledgeable to disagree for me
From reefcleaners website:
1. Float the bag in your tank to get the snail used to the temperature in your aquarium.

2. Wait 15 minutes.

3. Add animals to the tank, discard shipping water and any towels used in the packaging.

Important: Snails may go through shock during shipping, and be closed when they arrive. You should give them plenty of time to come out of their shells and move around before deciding they didn't make the trip. Ceriths may go dormant for up to 3 days.

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we now ask our customers to use this procedure is because our snails and crabs live intertidally, and can handle swings in ph/salinity without a problem. However, what they can't handle is toxic levels of ammonia. During the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the ph level goes down. As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal ph is introduced to the shipping bags, and the ph rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this and certainly never let livestock sit out in buckets with shipping water exposed to fresh air for a long period of time, we know of no surer way to kill your new arrivals. Any other method of acclimation voids the Alive Arrival Guarantee. It is an easy method of acclimation and it works fine, please follow it.

Yes, they are much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to inverts. I hope they are :tongue:.

BUT - this is specific to reef cleaners as thier stocks are collected from intertidal areas where inhabitants can tolerate harsh conditions and daily PH/SG swings. They even tell you this is against what you would normally do with inverts. I would still acclimate all inverts from an LFS over a period of time using a drip method until the proper SG is met. If the SG of the bag matches your tank, then just proper temp.

This is not the same as going to the LFS and buying inverts as they have been acclimated with their system. I brought in several thousand snails/crabs from reefcleaners last week and I read this too, most were packaged in very little water if any and wet paper towels. I left this peice of info out as I doubted the OP is going to place an online invert order for a 34 gal tank that is just getting set up. Stranger things have happened though. They email these instructions in bold right after an order is placed.

 

[redstang]

Also, ammonia build up shouldn't be an issue on the ride home from a LFS. I drip my inverts and still can't keep a stinking nassarius alive.....

 

[ilovesam08]

blu_devl_06;720122 wrote: Hey gal! Glad to see you back at it! Take your time, ask a lot of questions, make sure you start off with rodi water, add your livestock slowly and enjoy your new system!

Thank you, I am planning out my system the best I can, as of right now I am still debating on which fish, coral, etc to add! But I plan on running through everything once the tank is purchased! So I can receive more advice and make sure once again, I am following steps correctly!