Is this Ich?

[jef4y]

Anyone know what I'm dealing with here? I've never had a fish with Ich but that would be my guess off hand.

Crazy. I've had this fish (Sunshine Chromis) for over a year. Had a new fish in the tank basically overnight before it died. That fish had no symptoms of anything and died I believe from high ammonia in my QT. The Chromis is acting fine, eating fine, etc. But these spots are new.

Other fish in the tank are 1 clown, 1 cardinal and a green mandarin. Not other fish show anything.

I'm concerned because I have a yellow tang that is in QT now and barring anything weird would go into the tank on Sunday or Monday.

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[jef4y]

and a follow up question, if this is ich, now what?

If I pull the chromis and put him in QT, the tang gets ich.
If I swap and put the tang in the tank and the chromis in the QT, the tang gets ich.

Ugh.

 

[kirkplunkett]

If the chromis has ich, your tank has ich for as long as there are fish in it. If you remove ALL fish, your tank is still suspect to have ich in the water column for the next 4-6 weeks.

Do you have coral, inverts, etc... or is it LR/FO?

 

[kirkplunkett]

Disregard that question... I just looked at the pics again.

Your best bet is to remove ALL fish for 4 to 6 weeks and let the water column clear... If you are treating the QT, your Tang should be fine. I really wouldn't wanna chance it though. If it's not ich, though... What happens????

Treat your QT with Ich X... It will address the most common diseases... But you can't use Prime with Ich X. (I think that was you posting about Prime and Stability.) Regardless, your DT needs to remain clear of fish for 4 to 6 weeks. Do you have a safe place for the Tang to chill in the meantime??? A friends tank, a friends QT, etc...

 

[jef4y]

The tank is a reef tank. Corals (SPS, LPS, Softies), anemones, etc.

I'm not treating the QT because the tang has no signs of any parasites and I'm not really a fan of prophylactic treatment.

The small fish (mandarin, clown, chromis & cardinal) would likely be okay in the QT together but the tang would have to go somewhere else which definitely sucks since I JUST got him and haven't even had him in the DT yet.

The first question though is identifying what this is.

 

[kirkplunkett]

It looks like ich to me... But so did the Brooklynella that I'm still trying to recover from. My only concern about the other fish in QT would be a food source for the mandarin. But you seem like you know what you're doing (probably more than I do... I just have a knack for remembering random crap.).

All the best my friend... If I had a larger tank, I'd watch the Tang for ya!

 

[rdnelson]

Man Jeff. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. :-( By all means don't take my advice as gospel. You know how long I have been doing this. The three choices I see are as follows:

1. Feed Metro and Focus in the Display but leave the tang in the QT for a couple more weeks. Chances are that if this works, you will have a reinvestation down the road but you will be expecting it and can start treatments at the first indication of an outbreak. The fish in the display now may build up an ammunity to it which will help them fight it off at the next outbreak. The tang will not have that ammunity so you will need to watch him closely for months.
2. Put all fish but the tang in the QT and treat them all. Leave for at least 6 weeks. Find someone who can house the tang for you for the next 6 weeks.
3. Leave the tang in the QT and move all other fish in with him. Treat them all and leave the display fallow for 6 weeks.

Of course that is all assuming it is ich. If it is brook, your only real choice is putting them all in the QT and treating with something like Ich X.

Keeping my fingers, toes and eyes crossed for you bud.

 

[ralph atl]

formalin...........

 

[rdnelson]

mysterybox;797290 wrote: formalin...........

Cant use that in the display though. Ich X is a formalin based product and claims to be reef safe but I don't know of anyone who has tried it.

 

[jennm]

Ich-X contains Formalin. (You can't buy Formalin 3 anymore - because "it causes cancer in California").

I think it's ich... but you could have more than one thing going on. The Ich-X will treat either/both (and amyloodinium if that's in there too)... but yeah you're in a quandry about how to go about doing all that.

Either way - whatever "it" is, is in your display - so no matter how careful your QT protocol, anything introduced to the display is going to be exposed to it, unless you go fishless for some weeks.

Ich-X says "reef tested" on the bottle but I have never used it in anything other than a QT, and I've never recommended doing so either - I wouldn't take a chance with my creatures, and I wouldn't suggest anybody else do so.

Sucks.

Jenn

 

[kirkplunkett]

rdnelson99;797293 wrote: Cant use that in the display though. Ich X is a formalin based product and claims to be reef safe but I don't know of anyone who has tried it.

Jenn very specifically stated when consulting her about the Brook, "It says 'Reef Safe', but it's not... Do NOT use it in your display."

From what I've seen here, JennM's word is gospel.

 

[jennm]

Not gospel by *any* means... I just advise based on my own experiences (unless otherwise stated)

Kirk is right about NOT using Prime with Ich-X as well. There's a warning on the label about not using with sulfur-based water conditioners. If you need a product that does what Prime does, without the sulfur (or Alpha, for that matter) - Hikari makes a product called Ultimate which is compatible with the Ich-X.

Jenn

 

[jcturner]

As for feeding the mandarin, I've kept 2 alive in a QT for 7 weeks!! A completely new tank with nothing in it. I have bought several bottles of Copepods over the 7 weeks, but they're alive! I hope to move back into the DT in 2 weeks and can't wait!!!

 

[kirkplunkett]

JennM;797297 wrote: Not gospel by *any* means... I just advise based on my own experiences (unless otherwise stated)

And she's modest too!!!:shades:

Edit:

jcturner;797299 wrote: As for feeding the mandarin, I've kept 2 alive in a QT for 7 weeks!! A completely new tank with nothing in it. I have bought several bottles of Copepods over the 7 weeks, but they're alive! I hope to move back into the DT in 2 weeks and can't wait!!!

Won't the pods be killed by the copper in the medication?

 

[ralph atl]

JennM;797295 wrote: Ich-X contains Formalin. (You can't buy Formalin 3 anymore - because "it causes cancer in California").

I think it's ich... but you could have more than one thing going on. The Ich-X will treat either/both (and amyloodinium if that's in there too)... but yeah you're in a quandry about how to go about doing all that.

Either way - whatever "it" is, is in your display - so no matter how careful your QT protocol, anything introduced to the display is going to be exposed to it, unless you go fishless for some weeks.

Ich-X says "reef tested" on the bottle but I have never used it in anything other than a QT, and I've never recommended doing so either - I wouldn't take a chance with my creatures, and I wouldn't suggest anybody else do so.

Sucks.

Jenn

ok, then Ich-X by Hakari that contains formalin (formaldehyde <3%)

Start another QT tank then...just a small 5 gallon for chromis.....

leave tank fallow for 6 weeks, or treat tank.........you can always test some coral in QT tank?

 

[jennm]

Formalin 3 was 3%. It's preferable but unless somebody has some old stock out there, it's gone - discontinued (it doesn't go bad... it's formaldehyde...) Ich-X is the next best thing that I've been able to find, at least until California catches on

Ralph's idea is a good one - separate QT for the chromis.

The only thing is - the fish that are in the display with the chromis are likely either infested, or carriers. Some fish never show symptoms, but as long as there is a host fish to feed on, the parasite and/or protozoan can keep on completing its life cycle. So it's there until there's no host for enough time that it dies out.

Jenn

 

[jcturner]

Im sure the pods did die shortly after I poured them in. I would pour just a little of the bottle in every other day. Seems to have worked for feeding the mandarins.

 

[jef4y]

Honestly the mandarin is no worry. He would eat a rock if I dropped it in the tank. He'll be fine.

The solution is simple, just a PITA. The 4 fish need to go in their own separate QT/Hospital tank and the Tang needs to stay in the tank he is in for I guess 6-8 weeks.

Now I need to buy or borrow another 20G QT setup.

Oh, one thing that will be touchy is getting biological filtration setup in the new hospital/qt tank for the DT fish. I'll buy some matrix but if I can't use prime or stability with any medication, I'm going to have a serious problem. I'm wondering if I can start with the prime/stability and then medicate after a 4-5 days to give the bacteria a small chance at starting up.

In any event I've got my work cut out for me.

I'm just wondering if it was from the fish I put in there overnight or if this was something lingering forever that just decided to rear its head. I guess I'll never know and I suppose it doesn't matter.

 

[jennm]

You can use Stability. You just can't use Prime - but you can use Hikari Ultimate.

It was probably something lingering... but the bottom line is you won't know for sure - so don't stress on it.

If you have some Matrix already in your sump (or if somebody has some that's populated - from a healthy tank) you can use that too.

Jenn

 

[ralph atl]

JeF4y;797345 wrote: Honestly the mandarin is no worry. He would eat a rock if I dropped it in the tank. He'll be fine.

The solution is simple, just a PITA. The 4 fish need to go in their own separate QT/Hospital tank and the Tang needs to stay in the tank he is in for I guess 6-8 weeks.

Now I need to buy or borrow another 20G QT setup.

Oh, one thing that will be touchy is getting biological filtration setup in the new hospital/qt tank for the DT fish. I'll buy some matrix but if I can't use prime or stability with any medication, I'm going to have a serious problem. I'm wondering if I can start with the prime/stability and then medicate after a 4-5 days to give the bacteria a small chance at starting up.

In any event I've got my work cut out for me.

I'm just wondering if it was from the fish I put in there overnight or if this was something lingering forever that just decided to rear its head. I guess I'll never know and I suppose it doesn't matter.

99% sure it's from a new or recent fish.