Issues with a new Kole tang.

[Adam]

Ok, so I've QT'd a couple dozen fish since getting started in the hobby and I've never seen this behavior before. I added several tangs to a 60 gallon QT Wednesday afternoon. This Kole was the 1st added and acted odd from the beginning. The 60 had, and still has, a bacterial bloom and I was running carbon. The fish twitched a bit and swam erratically till it went in a pvc fitting and hid the rest of the night. The other fish did not show this behavior when added. The salinity of the tank is a hair below 1.020, temp is 78 and the ammonia badge has not shown any increase. Yesterday when I got home from work it was swimming circles around the perimeter of the tank. I have a pretty good current in the tank in that direction but it it definitely swimming. All the other fish are acting pretty normal except the Yellow Belly Regal which is flashing and scratching on the edges of the PVC some. All the other fish have eaten frozen and some nori, including the YBR, but the Kole has not. None of the fish show any signs of external parasites. The color is good on the Kole and there a no blemishes or anything with it outward appearance that look off. It's dorsal fin is a bit frayed but nothing too bad and I figured it was just from shipping.

There are no treatments of any kind in the water yet. I wanted to get them eating well before ramping up the Copper Power, which I'm planning to start doing tonight. This morning I moved the fish to a 20L with a wrasse as the only other tank mate and added a dose of Prazi. This tank doesn't have as much flow and is at 1.018 salinity which is what the bags contained. I did drip acclimate all of the tangs to slowly match the 1.020 of the bigger tank.

I had to go to work but my wife is going to give me updates. Wondering if anyone has seen this before. @ActiveAngel any thoughts?

 

[ActiveAngel]

Not eating is one thing, but twitching doesn’t sound good... perhaps a parasite, or perhaps neurological. I’ve seen several fish with neurological issues... they don’t go away, but the fish still has a possibility for a good life.

You’ve already gone above and beyond what should be sufficient for planning, acclimation, and tank prep. And unfortunately, unexplained behavior is common when fish are taken from the wild, and even when just moving tanks... as well as all other areas of biology.

In your shoes, I’d say there are two approaches. I’ve seen both work, and both fail, so the best approach really is situation-dependent and without clear answer.

option 1) Start medicating. If it is some form of bug, the copper has a reasonable probability of killing it, and help him get better and start eating soon. That said, medication will cause additional stress.

option 2) Hold off medicating and let him get established for longer. Maybe as stress lowers, he will start behaving normally.

I’ve seen fish go as much as 6 weeks without food and fully recover... but honestly 4 weeks is probably a normal limit. Obviously, for others reading this, I don’t condone taking advantage of that limit, but it’s good to keep in mind that he won’t die of starvation over 1 week.

In your shoes, I would maybe hold off another 1-3 days, but then begin copper. Especially with multiple tangs, I don’t want to risk any bugs spreading. During observation, also keep an eye on his mouth, for the small possibility that he has some sort of minor mouth infection.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Also, draping a towel or something over half the tank can help reduce stress in all fish. Basically give him a little extra darkness to hide until he feels safe and ready.

He can stay in the darkness and hide if he wants. And if he comes out and is swimming in the light, that is a good sign.

Not only does the darkness help, but it also creates a small wall between him and the human world outside the glass... which I’m sure is scary for him until he learns it is safe.

 

[zoajohn]

For what it's worth, I have a yellow tang that exhibited similar behavior. It was fine for 2 months, then out of nowhere stopped eating and had difficulty swimming and would show erratic movement occasionally. This went on for over a month, and I thought surely it was going to die. Woke up one morning and it was completely back to normal. Eating algae and nori like nothing happened. I have no clue what the problem was, but it resolved itself with no treatment.

 

[civics14]

Scratching or flashing is usually a symptom of a disease in my experience and that is when I would medicate. However, medication usually suppresses appetite which is another issue with fish that isn't already eating.

I agree with Andrew that it wouldn't hurt to hold off another day or so to see if you can get them eating first. Or if you have a separate 20G lying around, put the Kole in there to try to get it eating while you medicate the other fish.

 

[Adam]

I've already removed it from the 60 and it is the only tang in this tank. It is a much more peaceful environment and I've added Prazi. I will keep it there until it starts eating. I may add some H2O2 to that water as well. I am not going to add copper to a fish that is not eating. If it starts eating even a little I'll start the copper.

In the 60 I'm going to remove the last of the carbon and do a water change it see if it helps with the bacteria bloom at all, then start ramping up the copper to 1ppm tonight and continue to increase it to therapeutic over the weekend.

 

[Rainblood]

For what it's worth, I have a yellow tang that exhibited similar behavior. It was fine for 2 months, then out of nowhere stopped eating and had difficulty swimming and would show erratic movement occasionally. This went on for over a month, and I thought surely it was going to die. Woke up one morning and it was completely back to normal. Eating algae and nori like nothing happened. I have no clue what the problem was, but it resolved itself with no treatment.

Ugh my kole tang is doing this as we speak. I hope it follows the same path as your yellow

 

[Adam]

Nat's just texted me and said the fish did not eat. Mysis floated right in front of it and it acted like nothing was there, it started pecking and swimming into a lower corner of the tank, she asked if it was blind. All these things seem neurological to me.

I had her put a dark towel over the tank and make sure it doesn't interfere with the filter. She sent me a pic and it looks good.

 

[civics14]

Nat's just texted me and said the fish did not eat. Mysis floated right in front of it and it acted like nothing was there, it started pecking and swimming into a lower corner of the tank, she asked if it was blind. All these things seem neurological to me.

I had her put a dark towel over the tank and make sure it doesn't interfere with the filter. She sent me a pic and it looks good.

Are you soaking food in garlic to entice it?

 

[zoajohn]

Ugh my kole tang is doing this as we speak. I hope it follows the same path as your yellow

From what I discovered, feeding strikes aren't uncommon in tangs even in the wild. I hope yours turns the corner

 

[Adam]

Are you soaking food in garlic to entice it?

Not yet, just Selcon.

It appears to be singularly focused and it's mind is F'd. Outside stimulus doesn't have much effect other than avoiding things in it's path. I've found that QT'ing multiple fish at once is always better than 1 at a time. When they see other fish eating it triggers their feed response. It's the same out on the lake fishing. I got lucky the little wrasse was eating on it's own right off the bat. The thing is so small though that the tang may not even notice it eating. I had planned to have two other wrasses but they didn't come in.

I'm debating trying a long Methylene Blue bath tonight in case its from cyanide. Prazi is already in there for flukes or internal worms. The problem is Prazi can be an appetite suppressant too.
Hopefully it will snap out of it.

 

[ActiveAngel]

I think selcon May have garlic already. Regardless, have you tried frozen brain shrimp? I find this is the easiest food to get any fish to eat...It makes them go crazy like it’s chocolate or something

 

[Adam]

I think selcon May have garlic already. Regardless, have you tried frozen brain shrimp? I find this is the easiest food to get any fish to eat...It makes them go crazy like it’s chocolate or something

I typo all the time but for some reason this one is cracking me up. Shrimpy brain, shrimp for brains... I'll things I've been called, lol

I work close to Nemo's and am planning to run over there shortly to pick up an assortment of foods, I'll get some brine shrimp too.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Hahahaha, that’s fantastic! Totally didn’t catch that! I wonder if I mistyped or if autocorrect took executive action to change my word. Regardless, Brain shrimp is hilarious.

 

[civics14]

Not yet, just Selcon.

It appears to be singularly focused and it's mind is F'd. Outside stimulus doesn't have much effect other than avoiding things in it's path. I've found that QT'ing multiple fish at once is always better than 1 at a time. When they see other fish eating it triggers their feed response. It's the same out on the lake fishing. I got lucky the little wrasse was eating on it's own right off the bat. The thing is so small though that the tang may not even notice it eating. I had planned to have two other wrasses but they didn't come in.

I'm debating trying a long Methylene Blue bath tonight in case its from cyanide. Prazi is already in there for flukes or internal worms. The problem is Prazi can be an appetite suppressant too.
Hopefully it will snap out of it.

I agree regarding QT'ing multiple at a time makes it easier to get them to eat because the feeding frenzy. It's like a heard mentality.

Brine shrimp is usually great to entice fish to eat, I usually start off with frozen brine then mix it with mysis to get more nutrients.

 

[Adam]

I agree regarding QT'ing multiple at a time makes it easier to get them to eat because the feeding frenzy. It's like a heard mentality.

Brine shrimp is usually great to entice fish to eat, I usually start off with frozen brine then mix it with mysis to get more nutrients.

Everyone is eating mysis except the kole. I got some brine gut loaded with spirulina and a few other foods. Also picked up a small powder brown to go with the other tangs.
It a shame, Simon had a couple wrasses I wanted. He said to let things go a few more days but when a guy that sells fish says he'd wait before adding anything else with the kole you listen.

 

[Shawn]

Have you tried gradual hyposalinity? It’s worked for me when a fish wouldn’t eat. Take it down to 15 salinity rather than 35. You can bring it down over 24 hours but it has to be raised back super slow - like over a couple weeks.

 

[Adam]

Have you tried gradual hyposalinity? It’s worked for me when a fish wouldn’t eat. Take it down to 15 salinity rather than 35. You can bring it down over 24 hours but it has to be raised back super slow - like over a couple weeks.

Right now it is in 1.018 which is about 24ppt and I have been thinking about lowering it more. We'll see how it goes today. I still may give it a long methylene blue bath in hyposalinity.

To lower the salinity of the 20l I need to replace almost 10 gallons with RO water. I could use some of the water I pull out to make the bath. I'm just worried about what effect going hypo may have on the baby wrasse. It's tiny, like about an inch long. If it can handle the hypo I can finish the QT that way instead of copper and slowly raise the salinity from there.

I also found a Marineland micron filter that will clear the bacterial bloom on the 60, even if temporarily. I'll be picking it up this morning at Petco. It'll help me observe the fish in there better.

 

[Adam]

@ActiveAngel do you think going hypo would be a good idea?

 

[ActiveAngel]

@ActiveAngel do you think going hypo would be a good idea?

Not necessarily. But I don’t think going a little hypo would be too bad either. I may just be the “throwing it at the wall, and seeing what sticks” strategy.

The issue could be stress, neurological, or a bug. If it is a bug, going hypo may help, depending on what type of bug. But so would copper. Both approaches add their own risks, stress, and benefits.

The fish should be fine down to 1.015 with minimal additional stress. Any marine bugs won’t like this. Going lower is when you may start to add stress to the fish.

edit: at my old LFS, we ran all Fish Only systems at 1.015. Thousands of fish, short term and long term. Only a couple certain species of wrasses and select fish really need reef salinity.