Kalk Drippers, Do You Use Vinegar?

[acroholic]

Got a buddy that swears by this method. Here are a couple articles on the subject. The vinegar you mix in allows more of the benefits of kalk to be delivered in the same volume of water vs. mixing kalk with water only, is what I'm taking from it. In addition, the vinegar is a carbon source for denitrifying bacteria.

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html">http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html</a>

Randy Holmes Farley article. See section titled "Vinegar and Limewater to Boost Limewater Potency."

[IMG]http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php</a>

 

[ripped tide]

I add 1 teaspoon of Kalk to one gallon of RO water, shake, add 15ml white distiller vinegar, and then another teaspoon of Kalk. that gallon lasts me about 3 days of top off and keeps the ca right where I like it.

 

[grouper therapy]

No but seriously considering using now.

 

[ripped tide]

I was told by a friend that the vinegar would allow the water to utilize more of the calcium. It also makes the mix clarify faster. If you don't carbon dose, this is a nice way to start. And plus... Pickling lime + vinegar = super cheap way to add calcium and decrease phosphate and nitrate... Maybe $6

 

[ichthyoid]

Dave, I have posted that article by Craig Bingman on here at least 4 or 5 times. Very few seemed to get it, and there have usually been questions by those that decided to try it.

It's written by a chemist and is admittedly a little technical, but it works. I've used it for years.

-Bill

 

[mvm]

Ripped Tide;684133 wrote: Pickling lime + vinegar = super cheap way to add calcium and <u>decrease phosphate and nitrate</u>... Maybe $6

How does it do this? I must admit, I didn't read the article.:doh:
Similar to dosing vodka?

 

[ichthyoid]

MvM;684490 wrote: How does it do this? I must admit, I didn't read the article.:doh:
Similar to dosing vodka?

Yes, very similar to vodka dosing, but better-IMO. Here's why-

-When you mix the vinegar+lime it forms calcium acetate (a form of organic carbon)

-bacteria multiply and consume the 'acetate', thereby liberating the calcium, as well as a hydroxide ion

-bacteria also require phosphorous and nitrogen which they get by consuming nitrate and phosphate from the water column

-when the bacteria are exported via heavy skimming, the nasties (phosphorous and nitrate) go with them.

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;684509 wrote: Yes, very similar to vodka dosing, but better-IMO. Here's why-

-When you mix the vinegar+lime it forms calcium acetate (a form of organic carbon)

-bacteria multiply and consume the 'acetate', thereby liberating the calcium, as well as a hydroxide ion

-bacteria also require phosphorous and nitrogen which they get by consuming nitrate and phosphate from the water column

-when the bacteria are exported via heavy skimming, the nasties (phosphorous and nitrate) go with them.

So it would require skimming?

 

[ichthyoid]

Yes Dave, definitely and a good one at that. Some of the bacteria will be consumed by corals you have. However, an efficient skimmer is a must.

 

[grouper therapy]

ichthyoid;684516 wrote: Yes Dave, definitely and a good one at that. Some of the bacteria will be consumed by corals you have. However, an efficient skimmer is a must.

Oh well . I'm out

 

[ripped tide]

If you don't skim, can't carbon dosing really hurt a tank?

 

[ichthyoid]

Ripped Tide;684583 wrote: If you don't skim, can't carbon dosing really hurt a tank?

I don't know if anyone has 'definitively answered' this question. Here's what I DO know.

-like a septic tank, unless exported, bacteria 'carcasses' will build up a sludge layer on the bottom.

-this sludge will lead to anaerobic decomposition of the dead bacteria.

-under skimmed, and/or over-(carbon) dosed tanks suffer from a significant drop in both O2 and ORP levels. Both are very bad things (the ORP is an 'indicator' of oxidative potential, ie- system health).

This is why we must-

1) understand what we are doing

2) go slowly, observe changes, and back off the dosage if needed.

3) use an oversized skimmer! This does 3 things-
A) exports bacteria at a sufficient rate
B) oxygenates the water sufficiently, thus keeping ORP up, and
C) gives us some margin for error, IME

-JMHO