Kick ich

[tanks4life]

Ok for the past 4 years every time I pull a fish from QT and place in the DT it comes down with. So I've been using kick ich for the full 13 day cycle the product requires. Well this time it isn't working...

What can I do to get rid of the ich in my tank for good? As side from tearing it down freshwater dipping all corals and rock.

Only my mandarin and tangs seem to be subject to it. Everything else appears to ich free.

I don't run a sterilizer atm. Is that something I should invest in due to this issue?

I acclimate with a 2 hour drip. Roughly 1 drop every 2 seconds.

My skimmer is oversized for this tank, I have 2 filter socks right off the overflow.

My tank has been dropping to 72 the last 2 nights so I'm going to get 2 new heaters this morning.

Any thoughts?

 

[mcphock]

Sterilize your QT system. Take down and bleach.

The only way I know to entirely eliminate ICH in a system without nuking the entire thing is allow it to run fallow for a length of time. Perhaps others can chime in here.

 

[porpoiseaquatics]

Well the temp drop is probably the reason the ick is showing up. Any undue stress will cause it to show it's ugly head.

As for what you can do.......a few things. One option is to take all the fish out of the tank and allow it to go fallow for about 6 weeks (I think that's the correct time frame). That interrupts the life cycle because without a fish to attach to, the ick dies.

Other things.....put a properly sized UV sterilizer on the system. That won't get rid of it but it will help kill any that are free floating in the water column. Feed your fish with a blend of garlic guard, metro and focus per the recommended dosages. This will boost their immune system and eventually it will go away. It's not gone by any means though.

Finally you can remove the affected fish and treat with Rid-ick per the directions.

Here's my previous post on this issue. From my experience, do not use Coopersafe....

Lesson learned here so I thought I would share. About 3 weeks ago, my Powder Brown Tang (PBT) developed ick. Nobody else in the tank had/has it. Something stressed him and I don't know what. Anyway.....I started treating with medicated foods (Metro & Focus) but I wasn't using the correct dosages.

Further investigation told me what I should dose so I fed medicated 2 - 3 times daily and he ate like a pig! The ick didn't diminish but it didn't get worse either. My UV had been offline during this period of time so I got it hooked back up and running slow....right at 300 gph. Still no real change. I did this for a period of 2 weeks. At the end of that two weeks, I noticed he would almost eat from my hand so I saw an opportunity to catch him and that was successful.

I began dipping him with Rid-ick. Twice a day for about 10-15 minutes. He was quarantined during the treatment period so it was easy to catch and dip him every other day. He tolerated this very well and ate as usual during the 2 weeks of dipping. The ick was almost completely gone. So as one last dip, I decided today to do a dip in Coppersafe. I dipped him for about 15-20 minutes with an airpump providing O2 to the dip container (the same process I used with the Rid-ick). At that end of that period, I returned him to his quarantine, with the hopes of returning him to the DT in the next week provided no signs of ick return. At first, he swam but didn't seem interested in anything. I normally fed him again upon return for the dip session. He didn't want food. Slowly he got lower and lower in the quarantine until finally he was at the bottom. Now it looks like he's dead.

The only thing that I can figure is that the Coppersafe did something to him. I read through the entire instructions multiple times and there is no mention of a time limit. I don't know what happened. I thought for sure that I had successfully treated this fish and would be able to return him to the DT but that's not going to happen.</em>

 

[mcphock]

porpoiseaquatics;989617 wrote:
Other things.....put a properly sized UV sterilizer on the system. That won't get rid of it but it will help kill any that are free floating in the water column. Feed your fish with a blend of garlic guard, metro and focus per the recommended dosages. This will boost their immune system and eventually it will go away. It's not gone by any means though.

This is my understanding as well. Your only options for total elimination are:

1) 6-8 week fallow period
2) tearing the whole system down and bleaching everything

The other things mentioned above will help to varying degrees, perhaps even suppressing it to unnoticeable levels. However, it will always be a latent infestation, waiting to strike if stressful conditions weaken the livestock.

 

[tanks4life]

I treat all my new fish with mardels coppersafe when they go into the qt. I treat the entire tank. After 3 days I add carbon to the overhang filter to pull the remains out. I also do a 25 percent waterchange at that time. I watch them closely for the remained of week one, then I follow up with melafix. Just to heal any damaging affects of the coppersafe or any ripped fins. This goes on for a week then place the carbon back in, followed with another 25 percent water change.

This is the first round of treatment I use and most of the time the only round nessecary. But every now and then after the qt they get ich once added to the Dt. They do remain in QT for 4 to 6 weeks just to watch for illnesses the may have been overlooked and retreated if nessecary.

 

[mcphock]

Excellent QT process you've got in place!

However, as you've probably surmised, the problem lies in the display tank.

 

[tanks4life]

Yup. Which is where the ruby's reef kick ich came into play. It's worked thus far but now the ich is back. If the kick ich is supposed to eliminate the parasite then it should be out of my tank by now... but it's not. So that alone concerns me.

The only way to go fallow in my tank is to move fish into either 10 gallon holding tanks or place them in the lionfish tank. I've never had ich in the Lions tank however I don't really care to find out. And moving that many fish to holding tanks is unnerving because I don't want to lose anyone due to crowding or even lack of proper filtration.

 

[mcphock]

ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE WARNING:

Many of these "potions" are nothing more than snake oil. See also, Pimafix, Melafix.

See also http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylnocures.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylnocures.htm</a> for more scientific based opinions.

You're in a bit of a pickle, honestly. Perhaps look at hyposalinity in conjunction with the other non-fallow methods above. I'd think that would suppress the Ich to much lower levels. Still though, even that may not 'solve' your problem.

 

[tanks4life]

Back to the drawing board for more research on freshwater dips and hypo salinity. Ugh.

 

[mcphock]

If the problem is systemic (which it is), then a dip isn't going to help. You might kill the parasite on the fish (yay!), but the infestation is in the water. There's no guarantee that a new fish won't pick it up upon introduction.

I'd do some more reading on wet web media, perhaps there's something I missed.

 

[tanks4life]

Ok. Thanks for the info. In 10 years I've never found a issue this irritating to deal with.

 

[mcphock]

I understand your frustration. If you could microscopicly analyze all our tanks, I bet virtually 100% have a latent Ich infestation.

My guess is if you employ the suppression methods we mentioned, you can greatly reduce their numbers in the water column (and as such, hopefully, the likelihood of an infection upon introduction).

 

[tanks4life]

Anything is worth a shot if it means keeping a healthy thriving reef.

 

[marquiseo]

You may can try this: http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/index.php/fish-bendazole-forte-worming-powder-fenbendazole.html">http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/index.php/fish-bendazole-forte-worming-powder-fenbendazole.html</a>

Reads:

[IMG]http://aquadesigninnovations.com/medication-fenbendazole/">http://aquadesigninnovations.com/medication-fenbendazole/</a>
[IMG]http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/courses/aq448/diseases/parasites.htm">http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/courses/aq448/diseases/parasites.htm</a>
[IMG]http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/fish/parasitic_diseases_of_fish.html">http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/fish/parasitic_diseases_of_fish.html</a>

 

[jennm]

There's nothing "wrong" with Kick Ich, it can help - don't run UV with it, and it seems to work better when the lights are off - I had a discussion once with the manufacturer about UV breaking down the medicine - even the UV that emits from normal reef lighting...

However, treating the symptoms won't fix the cause of the problem. You need to pinpoint that and address it - water quality, stress, temp or pH swings, voltage, aggression - these are all potential causes of outbreaks.

Yeah, in theory leaving a tank fallow will rid the tank of ich by breaking the life cycle but I've seen it return anyway. The only way to guarantee not having ich is to not keep fish - period.

DO NOT treat the Dragonet (Mandarin) with copper. They don't tolerate it. Tangs don't tolerate it too well either (as Jeff found out). If you MUST do that, use Seachem Cupramine and test meticulously to maintain the proper level - but again, don't treat the Dragonet.... he/she may remain a carrier so it's a catch 22 situation.

Your best bet it is to solve the cause and go from there.

Jenn

 

[skriz]

Copper really requires frequent testing to ensure therapuetic levels.

Rid ich and kick ich are garbage products: a running joke in the scientific and professional communities. You're better off sticking with impecable husbandry and frequent feedings. The fuller the bellies and lower the stress, the better able the fish are to fight ich naturally. I highly reccomend a good uv for your dt.

 

[tanks4life]

I took out the heater I had, replaced it with 2 smaller heaters and I have not had any more temp swings. There are also zero signs of ich. I have one more round of kick ich, then a water change. And the final step will be adding the uv sterilizer.

 

[tanks4life]

Ok so after the kick ich was finished I still have some very visible parasite spots on the fish. So I tried the lights out for a day. Then I mixed up some fresh food with garlic guard and fed green and red kelp sheets. The mandarin is nor completely ich free and eating like a champ. And the selfish rang only has a spot or two on its tailfin. But they appear to be fading so I believe the spots are just residual from where the parasite fell off. The skimmer was hooked up last night at has a flow rate of around 75gph. Being a turbo twist 6x I figured this low of a flow is enough exposure to ensure devastating exposure to the parasites. Fortunately my isopod, amphipod, and copepod population are enormously high so what does get sucked in won't really damage the population too bad. It's also no plumbed into the return. It's plumbed where the intake has its own pump set into the overflow portion of the sump and the return let's out near the sump return.