LED question

[rbredding]

MorganAtlanta;635748 wrote: You are getting 200 CREE XP-G/Es for under $500? I can't believe I paid $6/ea for XREs just last fall.... Being an early adopter sometimes sucks...

Nope, you don't need a separate module. Just use the variable speed ports (V1/V2) (assuming you aren't using them to control pumps). Each channel takes one port. See the tutorial at ReefLEDLights.com.

You need one dimmable port per ballast?

How many 3W led's can you control per ballast?

 

[lilrobb]

Yes to the dimmable port, I will need all 4 ports for my setup...

And question two depends on the ballast - I see up to 120W ballast being available...

 

[mockery]

<span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">

Rbredding;635772 wrote: You need one dimmable port per ballast?

How many 3W led's can you control per ballast?

Depends on which driver you get. For example this meanwell here:http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-41/Mean-Well-ELN-dsh-60-dsh-48D-dimmable/Detail">http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-41/Mean-Well-ELN-dsh-60-dsh-48D-dimmable/Detail</a> powers between 8 and 14.

But some of the thomas reasearch drivers can power near 100 leds I believe. [IMG]http://www.thomasresearchproducts.com/2010Datasheets/TRC200DimmingSeries09-06-10.pdf">http://www.thomasresearchproducts.com/2010Datasheets/TRC200DimmingSeries09-06-10.pdf</a>

I could very </span></span> <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">well be doing the conversion wrong but the thomas says 90-305VAC imput, </span></span><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">171-285 VDC output on 700ma. 300w output power.
</span></span>

 

[morganatlanta]

My 60W Meanwell ELN-24 drivers power 21 XRE LEDs each. There are higher wattage drivers available now, so I assume you would use higher wattage ones and need fewer total. The ideal would be to have just one per color channel. One variable speed port can control multiple drivers. I have two drivers on each port currently. The control voltage input doesn't use any much current, so you can apply it to a number of drivers in parallel.

 

[lilrobb]

MorganAtlanta;635788 wrote: My 60W Meanwell ELN-24 drivers power 21 XRE LEDs each. There are higher wattage drivers available now, so I assume you would use higher wattage ones and need fewer total. The ideal would be to have just one per color channel. One variable speed port can control multiple drivers. I have two drivers on each port currently. The control voltage input doesn't use any much current, so you can apply it to a number of drivers in parallel.

One color per channel is what I am looking for...

 

[vanished88]

you can hook more than one driver to a single port. you just have to look and see how many amps the driver pulls and how many amps the port will put out.

 

[roundman]

hey Rob remember me on those trips. I am learning how to use the arduino to control leds.

 

[thewarbrd]

LilRobb;635719 wrote: As for the drivers, do I want PWM or DC dimmables?

Two things to be aware of about meanwells if you're looking at those.

First is the PWM versions will still work with DC input so you can start off with manual control and add a PWM controller later.

Second is that both their PWM and DC models turn on and off at 1volt input, i.e. my controller ramps up from zero but the drivers don't come on until 10% (= ~1volt output on my 0-10v PWM arduino) and they turn back off once the contoller drops to 9%, small annoyance if you want a true 0-100% output ramp, but still highly functional.

 

[morganatlanta]

You might want to put a small number of your blues (probably without optics) on a separate channel to serve as "moon lights". I think that the light is still too bright for moonlights with all of the blues on even at the very lowest setting (10%) before they turn off altogether.

I tried some cheap blue LED strips as moonlights, they had the right brightness (dimness?) but they didn't have enough UV to make the corals fluoresce like I want.

 

[lilrobb]

I can confirm a price, however this is NOT a groupbuy...

Each 3W LED (red, yellow, gren, blue, white) will be .79USD + .10USD per starboard + .15USD per lens(collimator).
So total per LED 1.04USD, I doubt I will get the volume discount for my trial order - if I can convince them it will bring it down to .95USD per chip incl. lens...

Robb

 

[vanished88]

wow those are extremly affordable, they wouldnt happen to be the same semiled chips that maxspect uses would they? I would love to see a data sheet on them once you get everything worked out with the suppliers. Are you going to be using meanwell drivers or do you have a source for them aswell?

Sorry if I come across as pushy or rude, I do not mean to be that way at all. I am just really interested in your findings, and look forward to more information on your build.

:thumbs:

 

[lilrobb]

Here are the specs.

I have the manufacturer in China quote me for an order of 120W drivers/supplies - let's see what they come back price wise...
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

 

[morganatlanta]

LilRobb;636044 wrote: Here are the specs.

These specs are given in mcd (intensity), where as the Cree stats (with similar numeric values) are given in lumens (flux). The online converters between intensity and flux I tried don't seem to give meaningful results. Can you verify that these have similar light output to the Crees? Otherwise, you could end up with inefficient chips that don't put out nearly the same amount of light.

 

[lilrobb]

I have no idea how this happened, but I posted the wrong attachment...

It's been corrected

 

[morganatlanta]

That makes more sense.

 

[rjrgroup]

So does anyone know what is so special about "CREE" LED's? Are they not just a company that specifies the manufacturing....?

 

[morganatlanta]

They have the reputation of having the highest lumens/watt designs out there right now for the 3W chips. Other (cheaper) chips advertise close to the same numbers though, but since they aren't as well known or proven, people are reluctant to go with them. If you are doing a big job though, some experimentation might really pay off.

 

[lilrobb]

:yay:

Total order:

401LEDs + 401 optics = 386.56USD

 

[jbadd99]

Swiped from another board:

What makes one led bulb better than another? I don't mean the fixture, I mean the bulb itself.?

REPLY:

Very good question!!!!!

However, it takes a lot of organisation to present the answer in an easy to understand manor. I won't be able to asnwer this question in full details but instead of answering the question directly, let me put it this way:

Well the 1st mis conception is the country of origin.
Lets put this commonly seen statement to the test, "it's some China made LEDs"
I see a lot of this statement in different forums and seems to imply ALL made in China LEDs are bad. However, in those forums, the most commonly recommended LEDs of an US based company are actually made in China. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that particular brand is bad. Reversely, people seems to think LEDs made in US will be better. Not all true either. <span style="color: black">BridgeLUX's LEDs are not necessarily brighter or last any longer than LEDs made in other country. BridgeLUX is an US Silicon Valley based, designed and manufactured fully in US, all American company. CREE signed a contract to become BridgeLUX's major provider sometime around Jan 2009 and thus we are not even sure where these LEDs are made in or made by anymore. CREE LEDs are said to be made NOT in US. Note: BridgeLUX is not BrightLUX as mentioned by other vendor in the forum here. As far as I know, there is no BrightLUX LED factory/manufacturer except a Hong Kong based LED fixture intergrator for home use. There seems to have tons of mis info flying around.</span>

<span style="color: black">The 2nd point we should look at the LED is actually how well they are soldered onto the heat sink(usually a star shaped aluminum). LuminLED star aluminum heat sink and LuminLED bulbs soldered by different factory in the same country can be very different! I did not check whether all the products mentioned are geniunely orginal factory approved but at least I seen quality difference of these products from different sources.</span>

<span style="color: black">The 3rd point we should look at is the suitability of the application. Some very famous company may not have the right color for the application and thus even though you may be buying a better bigger name, probably even with better quality, but the LEDs are not proper for your application. Take BridgeLUX for example again. BridgeLUX was famous for something from 3000K to 7000K especially the warmer color but they don't make 14,000K LEDs last time I talk to them. So a Taiwan LED factory which makes 14,000K LEDs may actually be better choice reef application.</span>

<span style="color: black">The 4th point is more technical than political. Dupping of the diode(which is the core of LED) is not much of a rocket science now. However, choice of material used in the cover of the LED varies greatly from one factory to factory. Some factories use some very low end/silicone and blurred the output and lowered the efficiency while some factory silicone caps(the dome shape transparent plastic thing) may fall off earlier than stated lifetime.</span>

<span style="color: black">The 5th point, the most important factor in getting the LEDs bulbs with good lifespan is by choosing the right source. Some companies do use what we called X grade LEDs. These are basically rejects from the factory and generally used for toy grade products. Most toys are broken before the LED breaks, so they serve a big market purpose. Ebay vendors sell a lot of these without warning the buyers of the type of LEDs they are selling. Some vendors may not even know they have gotten a shipment of these themselves, so I would not always blame them as long as they do offer the warranty.</span>

<span style="color: black">White LEDs are made of blue LEDs with fluorescence material coating to generate the white color. It, in effect, works very much like fluorescence technology. As you noticed in regualr fluorescence tube, bulbs of some brands will go out much quicker than the other-some due to elecronics issues, some due to chemical issue. These fluorescence material varies greatly from company to company-it's hard to tell th</span>eir lifespan from an end user point of view. Factories do not usually rate this in their specs. The aging of this chemical basically shift the color white from warmer to cooler. That is it will become more blue as time goes by, kind of reverse of the MH. Blue has less lumens and PAR value to most light meters. So you can safety say PAR goes down when white LED aged.

Also Rob,