Mandarin in a size 29 cube?

acroporas;258812 wrote: I am going to go against the grain and say that you will be fine. IF you get one that eats frozen food. Now I do admit that is a big if. It is not easy to train a mandarin to eat frozen food, but if you do, they can and will thrive in a small tank.

The only person around skilled enough to successfully breed Mandarins, Matthew Wittenrich, feeds his broodstock almost entirely Frozen PE mysis. And he has the babies eating rods food and cyclopeze. So to those who say that prepared foods are insufficient. I say to you this. When you have surpassed Wittenrich skill at breeding them, you can say that you know more than him about their dietary requirements. (here is lots of great info about his first attemt at raising mandarins http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150">http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150</a>)

And then to thouse who insist that there is just insufficent space in a 29 gallon aquarium for to sustain a mandarin. I will direct you to Matt Peterson. While he has not succsfully raised the larvae yet. His mandarin pair[B]s[/B] spawn every night in is 20-30 gallon aquariums.... Also fed on a diet consisting of entirely prepaired foods.

Additionally, I know of many people who have had mandarins for years that eat pellets as their primary diet.

To thouse who are insisting that you can not keep a mandarin in a small tank. I ask you this. Have you had a mandarin that was eating prepaired foods that was living in a small tank kick the bucket prematurely? I have this suspicious fealing that everyone here is just regurgitating the standard lines without any real experience to back it up.

______________

Now again I will stress, this is all dependant on you teaching the mandarin to aggressively chase down frozen food. Which is no easy task. It will take a lot of dedication, and a bit of luck, but if you can get it to eat frozen food, it will be fine in your small tank.[/QUOTE]

YES, I have had a mandarin wither away in a 29 gallon.

Is the average hobbyiest a Matt Wittenrich or Matt Peterson? NO. SO, would it not be better to give advice accordingly to the audience requesting such advice?

You can find some mandarins that will eat frozen/pellet foods. You can also find smokers who never get cancer. Would you reccomend smoking since there are people who never get cancer from smoking?

Having said that, it can be done and as acro said in his first sentence, it is a big IF! Why not just get a fish that is better suited for that size tank rather than playing with it's life?
Click to expand...
 
acroporas;258812 wrote: I am going to go against the grain and say that you will be fine. IF you get one that eats frozen food. Now I do admit that is a big if. It is not easy to train a mandarin to eat frozen food, but if you do, they can and will thrive in a small tank.

The only person around skilled enough to successfully breed Mandarins, Matthew Wittenrich, feeds his broodstock almost entirely Frozen PE mysis. And he has the babies eating rods food and cyclopeze. So to those who say that prepared foods are insufficient. I say to you this. When you have surpassed Wittenrich skill at breeding them, you can say that you know more than him about their dietary requirements. (here is lots of great info about his first attemt at raising mandarins http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150">http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1963&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150</a>)

And then to thouse who insist that there is just insufficent space in a 29 gallon aquarium for to sustain a mandarin. I will direct you to Matt Peterson. While he has not succsfully raised the larvae yet. His mandarin pair[B]s[/B] spawn every night in is 20-30 gallon aquariums.... Also fed on a diet consisting of entirely prepaired foods.

Additionally, I know of many people who have had mandarins for years that eat pellets as their primary diet.

To thouse who are insisting that you can not keep a mandarin in a small tank. I ask you this. Have you had a mandarin that was eating prepaired foods that was living in a small tank kick the bucket prematurely? I have this suspicious fealing that everyone here is just regurgitating the standard lines without any real experience to back it up.

______________

Now again I will stress, this is all dependant on you teaching the mandarin to aggressively chase down frozen food. Which is no easy task. It will take a lot of dedication, and a bit of luck, but if you can get it to eat frozen food, it will be fine in your small tank.[/QUOTE]

I hate to agree with you:yuk: , but you are indeed correct.

My biggest secret is what you dont want to hear- Bloodworms. But wait... Mysis are a fresh water food too! Wow my reef thrives off of fresh water foods? Holy cow, who would have thunk it?

Now, I do agree that a refugium needs to be full of chaeto and LR. Ideally over 30 gallons, even on a 30 gallon tank. Nothing beats the real thing- Classic Pods. I think adding pods to a display tank is a waste, add them to the fuge with some DT's.
Click to expand...
 
On another note, I have bought/obtained over 10 individual specimens and have gotten every one to eat bloodworms. Some have to literally eat it on accident, but once they get the taste they are good on it. The spotted variety is easier for me to get going. I occasionaly get them eating Formula 1 and 2 pellets. I learned almost everything from Mark.

http://www.melevsreef.com">www.melevsreef.com</a>

I put a spin on his mandarin diner concept, which works great.
 
acroporas;258994 wrote: But was it eating prepared (either frozen or dry) foods? Were you even making any effort to teach it to eat prepared foods?

And no tossing food in the tank, watching all the other fish chase down the food in 1 minute and then saying "Nope, he didn't eat any" does not count as teaching.

You don't hand a book to a 5 year old every day and say read and then when the kid just looks back at you with a blank stair say "We'll try again tommorow." Teaching requires some extra effort on your part.

For example, start it off in a 1 gallon basket by itself where it has no competition for the food, and has all the time in the world to think about it. Feed adult live brine shrimp until it attacks them aggressively(which usually does not take long). Then start mixing in some frozen brine shrimp. Start with just a small amount(perhaps 1 dead for every 10 live) then over time increase the proportion of frozen brine until that is all it is eating. Then start mixing in frozen mysis. Once it is aggressively eating frozen mysis (not just eating, but actively chasing them down like a clownfish would) you can then release it into your tank.

If you are not willing to spend the time and effort required to keep a mandarin alive in anything less than a 500 gallon tank where there is sufficient naturally available food, then just say that. "I am too lazy to properly care for a mandarin", don't say that "It is not possible". I am much too lazy to learn to read spanish. That does not mean that it is impossible, and that I should tell others not to try.
Click to expand...

This entire response is based on the assumption that I didn't try.

If you want to smoke because it's possible that you don't get cancer, by all means, knock yourself out. But, reccomending it to a beginner or average guy is simply foolish.

What's the probability that the person who you are telling to get the mandarin is going to successfully follow through with everything you must to to keep this fish in such a small tank? Odds are the fish won't make it very long. You have to know the audience that you are advising. Not jabbing the OP, but most people just can't pull off housing the mandarin in a small tank..period.
 
If you can do it, then by all means get the fish and be happy. I just hate seeing fish die because we don't do our best to provide for them, that's all.
 
Skriz- I feel like the mandarins have a better chance at home than in the fish store. Even if they die at home ATLEAST they got a chance. Over the years, Ive seen way WAY too many mandarins wither away at the LFS waiting to be purchased.
__________________
Another thing I have noticed is that the mandarins need to be hungry(stomach flat) to even try your prepared foods. If you have a fat mandarin and plenty of pods- its very hard to get them to start eating your food, but I think that makes sense.

Its best to get the mandarins in a tank with NO competition to start offering them foods- 3 times a day and you must watch to see whats going on. Try to get the smaller bloodworms- Hikari and ON are good. Cut the cube with a razor to get small pieces, eventually they will eat full sized pieces. This takes hours of work, but its worth it in the end!
 
True, but then it begs the question of if we should be encouraging the lfs to continue to buy the fish (supply/demand)
 
And yes, it does take a lot of work and it IS worth it if you can pull it off.

I've had success by burying food under the sand..seems to trigger a more natural feeding response.
 
I've always been a fan of the disclaimer rather than straight-up lie.

"Yea, you can buy the mandarin, but you do know you're going to kill it ? Lets talk about this shall we ?"

As opposed to

"Do you have a 300g tank ? Then get out of my store. Get out ! Get out !!"
"Sir, I was asking for directions"
"OUT OF MY STORE MANDARIN KILLER"
"Can I use your bathroom ?"
 
Haha, a little exaggerated, but good points. Always laughing...

Anyways, no need to drag it on. Atreyu, looks like you have to decide whether or not it is worth the effort.
 
I had kept on in a 30g with 50ish pounds of live rock for over a year and he is now in my 55 with only 75ish pounds of LR and he is still doing fine. I do add pods once every 2-3 months just in case, hes about full grown. hes not super fat but looks healthy to me, no shrinking behind the gills(stomach area) or anything. Guess i am the exception to the rule. if your gonna do it i would advise adding pods once a month or so mainly just look at his body for skinniness and that will tell you if you have a problem.i understand what others are saying but it can be done if your not afraid to spend a little money to keep these beautiful fish alive.
 
I live in Acworth...and have a pair of mandarins that are doing great-in a 120 gal reef with a fuge full of pods. If you would like to come over I love to show them off. I hate to see these fish starve to death in any aquarium. They are very beautiful and deserve deep respect from reef keepers.

I CAN NOT recommend anyone try to keep mandarins in a small tank(less than 75-100) AND with a proper fuge. I too have tried to keep these fish in the past, with limited success---in a 120. I love the fact that you are researching these beautiful fish BEFORE you buy...it says a lot about you.

If someone has kept mandarins in a 29 gal, then they are expert mandarin keepers. Well boyond my 8 years experience in the hobby. To my knowledge, anything is possible...with the right experience and resources.

Good Luck with your decision!
 
wouldnt say expert at all, just alot of time to research and time looking to make sure they are healthy. all was said is that it can be done with the proper steps taken, along with care. dont expect to put him in and not look to see how well he is doing, there is a lot more care needed in a small tank than a large tank hand down. i guess i just have to much time on my hands.
 
never said that he could do it, said that it could be done, and gave him info that has kept mine alive for the last 1 1/2 years. sorry if i have done something wrong in you or any others opinion.
 
I'm getting ready to get back into the hobby. Many years ago I had a yellow headed jawfish in a reef tank. At the time in the hobby, most of us didn't even know that what we had was a reef tank. I'm think of around 65 or so gallons for my reef tank. Can I add the jawfish and what other fish would co-exist best in my reef?
 
I have a yellow headed jawfish in my tank. I constructed a burrow out of 3/4" pvc and buried it in the sand and put some rock over it, and he rarely strays from that burrow. It's funny, my coral banded shrimp will pick up shells and bring them to the jawfish, and he'll stack them around the burrow opening. When I first put the burrow in the tank, it stuck out like a sore thumb; now, you'd be hard pressed to find it if it weren't for the jawfish hovering an inch above the hole.

And yes, they're reef safe.
 
After reading this thread,I don't know if I can continue in the hobby or become an expert, I'M SO SCARED!!!
 
grouper therapy;263698 wrote: After reading this thread,I don't know if I can continue in the hobby or become an expert, I'M SO SCARED!!!
Click to expand...

Part of the problem with this hobby is that EVERYONE and their dog has an opinion. Far too many people give themselves airs, you're keeping a fishtank, not acting God, and that's what people forget. You're borrowing life, not creating it. Its really not that hard to keep a saltwater reef, if I could do it and I'm an idiot then anyone can. Its pretty much equipment,rocks,sand,livestock,water,and salt.

Just do what you want, and hope you've got some sense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Justin's 29 gallon Bio Cube!
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
justin003
J
Back
Top