My Neptune Automated System (LONG)

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

With that many Neptune orders in, I thought I would share the info on my setup for those who might be interested and to help folks thinking of buying or wondering about any of this stuff. It is also a study in a hobby out of control... After I started the aquarium hobby (addiction), I started getting sent out of town for business a LOT (thankfully, that is easing off). So, the goals I had with this system were 1) Minimal maintenance, 2) ability to monitor and control remotely and 3) backup/safety systems to help control/limit crashes from malfunctions. Also, I am a technogeek so a lot of this I did for fun.

My current system is a 120g 4x2x2 display tank visible through a hole in my living room wall. I just retired my old 58 again, which was housing some other things and that I would use for experiments. My sump is a 100g stock tank in the â€œstand-up crawl spaceâ€ under my house, with my very old (1972?) 20 gallon on top being used as a fuge. I have a ton of live rock in the main tank and sump, and a DSB in my main tank. One more interesting thing I did: My display is setup to roll back from the hole. 6 each 700 lb rated fixed industrial casters, along with some aluminum plate and other tidbits make this possible, and I have done it about 7 or 8 times over the last 2 years.

My other hardware (note that this does not necessarily match what I might recommend to others):

1)Korallin C-3002 calcium reactor
2)Korallin C-1502 converted to sulfur reactor
3)New MRC Nilsen for Kalk dosing
4)Deltec 702 skimmer with automatic cleaning head and flush valve
5)20g food grade trash can with RO/DI water for dosing and general usage
6)2x44 gallon (tied together) trash cans for salt water mixing, configured for continuous water changes.
7)3 heaters (two in sump, one in display tank) I use medium sized ViaAqua titanium heaters at the moment, which have their own temp controls.
8)Pacific Coast 1/4 hp chiller
9)Clip on fan (on main tank)
10)Tunze 6100â€™s (2) with 7095 controller (hope to get two 6055 nanostreams when they are out)
11)Kent GFO reactor.
12)Eheim canister filter (smaller, cheaper one) with Carbon and Polyfilters and whatever when I need them.
13)Litermeter III for dosing baking soda
14)ReefFiller pump (single) for dosing Kalk
15)ReefFiller pump (single) for dosing fresh water
16)ReefFiller pump (dual) for continuous saltwater exchange (one in, one out).
17)RO/DI unit with 2 RO membranes (I HIGHLY recommend this one!)
18)2x250W MH lights + 2x110 actinics for display
19)Pan World 100 main system pump.
20)Multiple cheap lights for the Fuge.
21)A varying number of MaxiJet pumps for additional flow, etc.
22)Neptune ACIIIPro
23)3 each DC8 power boxes, each on a separate circuit.

In addition, I have solenoids for the saltwater and freshwater buckets in-line with float valves to help with automatic refilling from the RO/DI unit.

OK, so what is controlled and how? See the next message..

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

How do I control this mess?

I use the Neptune for most of these, and as a backup on others. I also use built-in controls for safety on items like the heaters.

Solenoid RO/DI fill control. I set the FW bucket to fill early in the mornings, generally before 7:00 (spirit of the watering ban). The SW bucket pair fills as-needed via manual control about every 3 weeks when I mix a new batch. Each system has a float valve as well for safety.

ReefFiller dosing pumps. Note that I have them limited to low gallons/day as a safety measure to keep a runaway pump from doing too much harm. I also cycle them on/off using the OSC command for the same purpose. The worst damage they can do is (in theory) limited. Also, it reduces shock to the system by dosing slowly into the sump. Another nice feature of the OSC command is that I can get in via the web interface and adjust the dosing amounts when I am traveling. These ReefFillers are noisey, but don't seem to require near the maintenance that other types of dosing pumps seem to need (so far, anyway)

I have Kalk added at night (when sump lights are off) from the Nilsen, with an upper-limit PH cutoff point for safety. I also have a cutoff programmed in just in case conductivity is too low.

I dose Fresh water any time conductivity is above 53 or so. Again, flow is limited. The idea is that if the Kalk doser is off because of PH being high enough, this will kick in.

Salt water changes are running at all times, unless I am making a new batch. Again, I adjust the OSC on/off times as I see fit. I have a completely separate float switch in the bucket to cutoff the system if the salt water level in the buckets get too low. I have a low and medium switch running into the Neptune on this as well, though they are currently not being monitored. There is a heater in that bucket, as well as mixing pumps, that I don’t want to run dry. The heater and pumps are also tied into the Neptune system.

Sulfur reactor and CA reactor both run all the time. I do have a Neptune PH low cutoff on the C02 line, however, in case something goes nuts there. I am about to add a PH monitor in the reactor itself to better control that, and send me alarms when the tank runs dry.

Temperature control: I split this up a lot to minimize single point failures. 2 of the heaters run off of the Neptune, one runs via the chiller’s heater control. All 3 also have their built-in temp sensor as a backup. For cooling, the chiller runs itself, with the tank fan on my Neptune as my backup, plus a MH light cutoff if the temp gets too high. Oh, and my power is on 3 circuits, with the heating/cooling spread over all 3. If any one of these fail, there are two backups. If one of these gets stuck on, there are backups to balance, and (with the heaters) the wattage is limited.

Skimmer control: The skimmer is on 24/7 except during the feed cycle. The self-cleaning head (brushes) and the solenoid flush-valve are controlled using the OSC command with a huge duty cycle. Also, since the flush is with fresh water and there is no emergency overflow, I have a safety cutoff level set so if the conductivity gets too low, the cleaning system cuts off.

Wavemakers/power heads. I depend on the Tunze’s for most of this, however I do sometimes put in power heads that are cycled by the Neptune. This system would also keep water moving in case of a main pump failure.

I don’t use the ORP for anything automatic. Obviously, I use the Conductivity, Temp and PH probes very heavily.

Cannister filter and GFO run whenever the main pump is running.

MH and VHO lights are on separate circuits. Depending on the time of year, I set the MH lights to go out for an hour or so late afternoon (cloud passes over?) to reduce the heat load in my house. The Actinics have two lighting periods/day.

I have high and low alarms set (to send me txt messages) if PH, Conductivity or Temp get out of hand. I have that email running both from the controller and from AquaNotes. I also have the system text me every day at 1:00 with the current parameters.

The Tunze and Neptune controllers and Tunze pumps are on a uninterruptible power supply in case of power failure. I also have my DSL box and hub on a UPS, and my computer on a separate UPS. I have both the Neptune direct and Aquanotes web pages accessible through my firewall.

So, any one and in some cases multiple things can fail and the system can still work. I still have yet to wire in my flood sensors and a couple of float switches for my sump to monitor its level. Pretty much every parameter can be managed remotely, at least enough to cover until I can get back in and fix them.

Though the Neptune systems and software does have some warts, I am not sure I could be doing all of this without one.

Feeding is not automated, however I have found if I leave wine in the refrigerator when I am gone, the fish get fed.

This message is too long… Wonder if anyone will read it!:confused2: If anyone wants more info, please ask.

-Mike

purplegorilla · Jul 14, 2007

Nice, pics? Sorry if i am spoiled by the technology of a digital camera.

cameron · Jul 14, 2007

Here is how I do mine...

DJ America Power Switch (8 ports): 1=Return Pump, 2=Skimmer and Filter Pump, 3=Power Loss Pumps (for testing), 4=Top off Unit, 5=UV, 6=Auto Feeder, 7=Unused, 8=LED Lights (on all the time)

Neptune DC8: 1=Power Head 1, 2=Power Head 2, 3= Power Head 3, 4=Sump Light, 5=Heater 1, 6=Heater 2, 7=Fans, 8=MidDay T5 Lights

Neptune DC4HD: 1=Actinic, 2=Metal Halides, 3=Recirc Pumps for Salt and kalk mixing, 4=Chiller

Progamming:

If Sun 000/099 Then LT1 ON
If Temp > 84.0 Then LT1 OFF
If Power 001 Then LT1 OFF
If Sun 060/030 Then LT2 ON
If Temp > 83.0 Then LT2 OFF
If Power 003 Then LT2 OFF
If Sun 099/-060 Then LT3 ON
If Temp > 82.5 Then LT3 OFF
If Power 005 Then LT3 OFF
If Sun 099/-060 Then LT4 OFF
If Temp < 78.0 Then HT1 ON
If Temp > 78.4 Then HT1 OFF
Max Change 010 M Then HT1 OFF
If Temp < 78.0 Then HT2 ON
If Temp > 78.4 Then HT2 OFF
Max Change 010 M Then HT2 OFF
If Temp < 78.2 Then FAN OFF
If Temp > 78.6 Then FAN ON
If Temp > 81.0 Then COL ON
If Temp < 78.5 Then COL OFF
Max Change 010 M Then COL OFF
If Power 010 Then COL OFF
If FeedA 000 Then PM1 OFF
If FeedA 000 Then PM2 OFF
If FeedA 000 Then PM3 OFF
If FeedA 000 Then PM4 OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then ALM OFF
If pH > 08.50 Then ALM ON
If pH < 07.70 Then ALM ON
If ORP > 450 Then ALM ON
If ORP < 250 Then ALM ON
If Temp < 75.0 Then ALM ON
If Temp > 82.0 Then ALM ON

As you can see I don't automate everything. Some things like skimmer and return are just easier to have on switches that are just on/off rather than going through a menu.

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

(I'll clean things up and start taking pictures... my stuff tends toward utility, not visual aesthetics)

Cameron,

First, I liked your ReefTool program... Hope they get it up for sale soon, and congrats on the sale!

I agree on automation where it is not needed... unfortunately, I need it for everything. I do my main pump primarily because they are in the basement, so a remote control is needed. I also do it because I travel so much, and I can help my sitters go through the system more easily, plus they only have to punch one button (feed) on the Neptune and one on the Tunze to stop the works for feeding .

One particular time this was critical was when I was on travel a few years ago in the winter. The main breaker blew on my main basement circuit (long story). First, the AC3 Pro emails were what told me there was a problem. A number of parameters went south when that happened. I was able to talk the friend through the reset, but the main had been off for some hours. The water in the sump was well below 70 at that time (sump heater was on same circuit, and this is an unheated crawl space). Had I switched the pump on full, it would have been a horrible temp shock to the system.

So, I turned it on and off over a period of about an hour, watching the temp as I did. This also got me to split the sump area (which as the most components, chiller, etc) onto 2 circuits for the heater (I found a household 15 amp circuit I could get to) and a few other things. I am also about to add a temp probe in the sump.

I use 3 DC8's, one on each circuit. I had too much of a problem with the DC4's relay's getting stuck; DC8's are solid state. I have not run into the soft start problem yet on anything.

My program is in need of tidying up, but this is its current form:

Naming: For most of these, the first letter: K is kalk, F is fresh, S is salt, P is pump.

The B in the second letter is for barrel. The Kalk used to be a trash can.. it is now really the Nilsen, but it still has a B.

In the third letter, S is solenoid, H is heater, D is dosing pump, and P (for KBP) is for a mixing pump. That is obsolete.

SKP is the skimmer pump, SKC is the cleaner brush, SKF is the flush unit.

HET is my display heater, HT2 is my neptune-controlled sump heater.
LT1 is my MH lighting, LT2 the VHO actinic. SLT is the fuge lighting.
PMA is the main circulation pump. PM1 is a power head and PM2 is currently just a pseudo variable for the logic.

The rest are fairly obvious, I think.

If Time > 00:01 Then SBS OFF
If Time > 00:01 Then SBH ON
If Time > 00:01 Then KBS OFF
If Time > 00:01 Then KBP OFF
If Time > 03:00 Then FBS ON
If Time > 05:59 Then FBS OFF
If Time > 00:01 Then CO2 ON
If Time > 10:30 Then LT1 ON
If Time > 16:20 Then LT1 OFF
If Time > 17:10 Then LT1 ON
If Time > 20:20 Then LT1 OFF
If Temp > 83.0 Then LT1 OFF
If Temp < 77.5 Then HET ON
If Temp > 78.0 Then HET OFF
If Temp < 77.0 Then HT2 ON
If Temp > 77.6 Then HT2 OFF
If Temp > 80.1 Then FAN ON
If Temp < 79.6 Then FAN OFF
If Time > 00:01 Then PMA ON
If Time > 00:01 Then PSK ON
OSC 003/240 ON/OFF Then SKC ON
OSC 070/110 ON/OFF Then SBD ON
OSC 030/030 ON/OFF Then FBD ON
OSC 010/030 ON/OFF Then KBD ON
If Timer LT1 = ON Then KBD OFF
If Timer SKC = ON Then SKF ON
If Cond < 50.0 Then PSK OFF
If Cond < 50.0 Then SKF OFF
If Cond < 51.0 Then KBD OFF
If Cond < 53.0 Then FBD OFF
If Cond < 50.5 Then ALM ON
If Timer SKC = OFF Then SKF OFF
If SwitchA1 OPEN Then PM1 ON
If SwitchA1 CLOSED Then PM1 OFF
If SwitchA1 OPEN Then SBS OFF
If SwitchA2 OPEN Then PM2 ON
If SwitchA2 CLOSED Then PM2 OFF
If SwitchA2 CLOSED Then SBD OFF
If SwitchA2 CLOSED Then SBH OFF
If FeedA 000 Then PMA OFF
If FeedA 002 Then PSK OFF
If FeedA 005 Then SKC OFF
If FeedA 005 Then SKF OFF
If FeedB 000 Then PMA OFF
If Time > 09:15 Then LT2 ON
If Time > 11:01 Then LT2 OFF
If Time > 16:18 Then LT2 ON
If Time > 20:45 Then LT2 OFF
If Time > 05:30 Then SLT ON
If Time > 21:30 Then SLT OFF
If Time > 00:00 Then ALM OFF
If Time > 13:00 Then ALM ON
If Time > 13:10 Then ALM OFF
If Temp > 82.9 Then ALM ON
If Temp < 75.9 Then ALM ON
If pH > 08.60 Then ALM ON
If pH > 08.50 Then KBD OFF
If pH < 07.90 Then ALM ON
If pH < 07.80 Then CO2 OFF
If Power 005 Then ALM ON
Max Change 010 M Then KBD OFF
Max Change 030 M Then SKC OFF
Max Change 010 M Then PSK OFF
Max Change 030 M Then FBD OFF
Max Change 045 M Then LT1 OFF
Max Change 015 M Then LT2 OFF

This system is continuing to evolve, of course.

-Mike

cameron · Jul 14, 2007

I would add some POWER statements in so everything doesn't trip on at once after a power failure. That command alone keep my system from tripping the breakers on restart. You could also start splitting your heaters and such across DC8s so A01 could be heater1 and B01 could be heater2. Another thought would be to turn on your MH (assuming you run MH) when your temp actually drops.

About all I can think of. You already have a nice program from the looks of it and even implement switches which I have yet to do. Any reason you wait 5 minutes before setting a power outage alarm?

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

Cameron;57142 wrote: I would add some POWER statements in so everything doesn't trip on at once after a power failure. That command alone keep my system from tripping the breakers on restart. You could also start splitting your heaters and such across DC8s so A01 could be heater1 and B01 could be heater2. Another thought would be to turn on your MH (assuming you run MH) when your temp actually drops.

About all I can think of. You already have a nice program from the looks of it and even implement switches which I have yet to do. Any reason you wait 5 minutes before setting a power outage alarm?

I do have things spread out on the different DC8's... A is on ckt1, B is ckt2 and C is the 3rd ckt (15A). Heaters are on separate DC8's and separate circuits, with the 3rd running off of the chillers's controller.

LT1$-A1
LT2$-A2
FAN%-A3
HET&-A5
PM1&-A6
PM2&-A7
ALM&-A9
PMA%-B1
PSK%-B2
SKC%-B3
SKF%-B4
SLT%-B5
CO2%-B6
HT2%-B7
FBD%-C1
FBS%-C2
SBS%-C3
SBH%-C4
SBD%-C5
KBS%-C6
KBP%-C7
KBD%-C8

I put the 5 minute delay in for the alarm to give my DSL, computer and router time to reboot if it was a long outage. The main the the alarm does is kick out the email, so...

Good thought on the temp low and MH lights... nice added bit of redundancy.

You are also right on the power delay functions. I'll look at that. Again, things are spread over multiple breakers, so the load is not too bad. Plus the Max Change commands help some with that, if I remember correctly. Oh, and the IceCap ballasts in my MH have some forced "off" time built in, I believe.

My only issue with the switches is that there is no simple way to see if they are on or off when you are testing them... You have to tie them to another variable to see them. Neptune's break-out box is a big help for working with switches, by the way. Really makes things easier, and is not too expensive.

Thanks!

-Mike

cameron · Jul 14, 2007

mwitten;57155 wrote: I put the 5 minute delay in for the alarm to give my DSL, computer and router time to reboot if it was a long outage. The main the the alarm does is kick out the email, so...

good idea... I will do the same.

mwitten;57155 wrote: You are also right on the power delay functions. I'll look at that. Again, things are spread over multiple breakers, so the load is not too bad. Plus the Max Change commands help some with that, if I remember correctly. Oh, and the IceCap ballasts in my MH have some forced "off" time built in, I believe.

The MaxChange only prevents cycling too fast. On startup MaxChange doesn't help as it thinks it has never changed. Not sure which Icecap ballasts you have, but mine do not do that. The bulbs take a while to warm up, but the ballast is instant on. Flipping the power on and off without giving the bulbs time to cool down (10-15 minutes is standard) can blow the bulb.

mwitten;57155 wrote: My only issue with the switches is that there is no simple way to see if they are on or off when you are testing them... You have to tie them to another variable to see them.

You can hook up a light or an alarm to a power port and basically add "If SwitchA1 OPEN Then AL2 ON" to your programming. When the switch is on, the light or alarm will turn on. Hook it up to a night light that is painted red and when one of your switches is open, a red light will come on... I may do the same thing actually. Maybe buy one of those KMart Red Light special sirens....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ULTRA-BRIGHT-WARNING-REVOLVING-AMBER-LIGHT-W-LOUD-SIREN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63688QQihZ019QQitemZ290137826714QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ULTRA-BRIGHT-WARNING-REVOLVING-AMBER-LIGHT-W-LOUD-SIREN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63688QQihZ019QQitemZ290137826714QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW</a>

[QUOTE=][B]mwitten;57155 wrote:[/B] Neptune's break-out box is a big help for working with switches, by the way. Really makes things easier, and is not too expensive.[/QUOTE]Already have one... I pretty much have one of everything for an AC3. The Lunar Lights are cool as well. I hooked them up to the unit and they are really bright. Haven't had a chance to mount them in the canopy though.

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

Well, the Icecaps's I have *claim* to have a forced off time for safety. I have seen it work sometimes, and not others. I'd have to look it up again...

Your right on the Max Change. Was not really thinking on that one.

I do test the switches that way... sort of. It would still be easier if they had an indicator. On the other hand, the switches are in my basement, so a light on the DC8 tied to them is still better.

I just saw their new moonlight systems for the first time. They do sound interesting, but I am usually asleep when my fish are...

I see you use the sunlight calendar in your program. I have never gotten into that either, I am afraid. I cut back in the summer because of my electric bills. I have seen those used for other things, like setting up day-of-week (or month) sensitive settings.

Thanks!

-Mike

cameron · Jul 14, 2007

You could also wire the switch with an LED as well. You are right though a light on the unit would have been a nice addition and likely not that big of a deal.

You can run the sun plus of minues 99 minutes. I just run my MHs for 99 minutes after sunrise to an hour before. I let my T5s do the work for the rest of the time. The other trick I saw someone do is set the date on the unit to July in January that way his long days were in the winter and short ones in the summer.

mwitten · Jul 14, 2007

Cameron;57222 said:
You could also wire the switch with an LED as well. You are right though a light on the unit would have been a nice addition and likely not that big of a deal.

/quote]

Well, it was more to give me a warm fuzzy that the controller was seeing the switch closure, so I wanted something active from the Neptune.

As a side note, I put the switches (3 of them) in a piece of 2 inch (perhaps 2 1/2) PVC that I had cut "arches" out of (to open them up to view), then put slots in for flat Acrylic shelves to hold the switches. I used a big PVC flange for the base. I cut a hole in the center of the trash can lid for the PVC pipe to stick out and to run the wires down. Worked fairly well.. I plan on using this in my sump. This is a good method if you don't have a nice, flat surface to hang things on. Plus, you can put them at whatever level you want, since it goes to the bottom.

-Mike

My Neptune Automated System (LONG)

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