Mystery of the missing fish

[firstfish]

Hello all,

I am still in newbie stage, so pardon my question if it seems a bit ignorant. I lose a number of fish every week. Is this normal? My tank is supersized (~425 gallons) so there are a lot of fish. I have lots of different kinds of fish, but I have also made sure to avoid aggressive breeds. I know there is bound to be a certain amount of Darwinism at work, but I remain surprised by how many fish seem to disappear each week. And disappear they do, as I rarely see a dead fish in the tank. Do most "attacks" take place in darkness? I watch during daytime and I can't say there is a fish bullying the pack. All in, I would say I have at least 50 fish. I must lose 5 every week. Is this normal? One other question. I had my tankguy add an anemone to the tank about two weeks ago. Now I don't see it. Do they have a habit of hiding in the rocks? Any help/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ringo®]

What's the fish list? Finding any jumpers around the sides or back of the tank?

 

[rdnelson]

Anemones move around and will settle where they want. As for the fish, you say you have fifty but that the tank is new. Putting a bunch of new fish in a new tank all at once may be your problem. Do you understand how ammonia, nitrite and nitrate cycle in an established system?

You mentioned "fish guy". I take it you have hired someone to maintain the tank. Is that correct? Do you test your water yourself or let him do it. If you can tell us what you ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are it would give us a place to start.

As for not seeing any dead fish, they could be getting eaten by the snails and crabs after expiring. Or, they could be hiding in the rock work. Again, adding a bunch all at once could cause a lot of stress causing them to hide.

 

[redstang]

FWIW I've lost 3 fish in 5 years and never found a body. That being said, losing several fish every week would never be normal in my book.

5/week is 40% of your fish per month. That's atrocious. As Rich asked, have you tested the tank yourself? Is your fish guy also selling you fish?

Get a good ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kit by seachem, red sea, or salifert. Follow the directions closely and report back. If you have any ammonia or nitrite then your water is toxic to your fish and you need to get your biofilter in better shape before adding any more.

Also, please give us more info about your system. You said 425 gallons but approximately how much rock? Do you have a skimmer and if so what kind? Do you have a refugium? What other equipment do you have? All of this can assist people on this board with giving you better advice.

 

[butch]

How long has your tank been setup?

 

[kylebolch]

Here's a list of suspects:
-In the overflow
-jumped out dog/cat ate it
-attached and killed at night and cleanup crew ate'm
-jumped out and you'll discover the body sometime in the future
-not missing at all just hiding
I can't think of anything else. Lol

 

[ptreef]

I had a similar problem in my 210 while I had it set up. I only had a few fish but and I lost two yellow coris wrasses, a naso tang and a few others without a trace. The wrasses disappeared within a few days following QT. No sign since, even after dismantling the tank

 

[jennm]

Normal? NO.

Please give us a bit more info - how long the tank has been up and running.

What fishes you have that are surviving.

What fishes are disappearing.

Are you finding any dead bodies, or are they vanishing?

And yes - parameters - if your fish guy is the only one testing, I highly recommend you getting a test kit and doing the testing yourself, ALSO.

I've been in the trade for 15 years. Not all "fish guys" (or gals) are the same, and I've tested some hideous water that was "professionally maintained". I also encouraged all of my own maintenance customers to keep and use their own test kit.

Are you choosing the fishes, or is the fish guy choosing? And where is he getting these fish?

As an aquarium professional it bugs the bejeezus out of me when I see someone being taken advantage like this. Continually dumping new fish into a tank-of-death, is wrong.

Jenn

 

[kylebolch]

A fish rapture......

 

[outdrsyguy1]

I sneak in and net a few every week. Man my tanks getting full!!

 

[crew]

Based on your other posts, it seems like your tank is about 8-12 months old and was fully stocked at around the 6 month mark. My guess would be the bacteria are working double time and simply can't keep up and fish are dying to ammonia/nitrite.

The other possible culprit could be underfeeding. With a tank that large, it would be pretty easy to under feed, especially if you are new to the hobby.

 

[mikesmith34]

What about a hidden mantis shrimp??

 

[firstfish]

every once in a while I find a jumper but not very often

 

[firstfish]

My aquarium has been up and running for about eleven months. We gradually built up the fish and coral count. I have had 40-50 fish on average over the past 4+ months. Have probably lost at least 40 fish over the past 4 months.
I have all kinds of fish. I will list in a separate post. Simple answer is I have most all of the different types you see at local store. When I say most all, I mean most all of the type that are docile. Keeping away from aggressive fish because of number of fish and because of variety. Every once in a while, one of them will turn out to be a bully, but there aren't any regular bullies.

Not finding very many dead bodies. i have seen maybe two or three but that is it. The killings must be occuring at night. Just the other day my clam died. Also, not many jumpers. A few have jumped out over the past eleven months but not many.

I do not test the water. I guess I will need to test as well. Is there a particular kit that y'all recommend?

I feed 6-8 cubes of brine shrimp per day. My fish guy comes once a week (sometimes two) and provides meds or other nutrition, if needed.

I request certain fish, but have largely relied on him to provide a good mix thus far. I intend to take more control over selections but life gets in the way and I have been satisfied with the mix.

I have at least 300 lbs of live rock. Lots of places to hide, etc.

Using a wet/dry system with socks. Protein skimmer. Reverse osmosis system. Chiller. Do I have a refugium? Not sure, I will have to ask. I do have a very large sump with a few different sections to it.

I presume the hidden mantis shrimp is a joke, correct?

Will post additional answers if it turns out I missed something.

 

[firstfish]

Y'all recommended that I get a test kit. I will do that, but also wandered across Seachem's ammonia alert device. It is a little stick-on that you place in take that changes colors with ammonia levels. Has anyone used this product? I am not looking to use it instead of a kit but thought it might be a useful supplement.

 

[mcphock]

It'll get you a ballpark, and that ballpark is plenty good enough information to decide to take action or not.

Essentially, ammonia and nitrite should be at 0. Anything over that is a cause for immediate investigation and action.

You might also want to talk to a few other fish guys... mortality that high, especially on someone else's watch, should be cause for your concern.

 

[camellia]

IMO, the stick on strip isn't worth bothering with in a reef tank.

I'll second the brands of test kits that were recommended in above post #4. All three of them are good.
Do you know how much and how often water changes are done?

Please post test results back to us.

 

[rdnelson]

The Maris shrimp comment was not a joke. It could have come in with the live rock without anyone knowing. They do kill when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[jennm]

Hmmm...

Lots of things come to mind. A list of current inhabitants would be helpful. A list of the MIA/dead would help too.

Mantis is not a joke. It's a predatory shrimp that, depending on the type of mantis, will either stun or spear its prey, usually while the prey is asleep in a hidey hole in the rocks. Have you ever heard any unexplained clicking sounds coming from within the tank? Usually happens in a rapid-fire sequence of 2 to 5 or so clicks. If so, that's a huge red flag for a Mantis. No clicking doesn't rule it out either, you could have a spearer, which are silent.

Brine shrimp alone is not enough. Even enriched brine is lacking. Head to your LFS and pick up some Larry's Reef Frenzy - it has everything for everyone in it. It's a flat pack, not cubes, but it's cleaner and more varied than brine shrimp, and way more nutritious.

You get bonus points for being HERE to ask questions - now I'd strongly encourage you to keep reading, keep researching and DO keep asking questions. The more informed and involved you are, the greater your odds of long-term success.

Does your fish guy leave you a detailed report after each service? Water parameters and any observations? If he doesn't, he should be. You're paying for it. Make sure you get it. (I spent 13 years in the maintenance biz, I've seen great fish guys/gals, and I've seen horrible ones and most folks don't know the difference).

Is your fish guy using RO/DI water? Is he leaving you RO/DI topoff water or do you have an RO/DI unit?

Yes, you do need to have a test kit, an accurate thermometer and at the very least a hydrometer, but preferably a refractometer, and I highly encourage you - or anyone using a maintenance service, to test for yourself, and compare results with the written report that they ought to be leaving with you after each service.

If he's not leaving that report, either insist on it, or find a new fish guy.

I'm always very nervous about people, especially paid 'professionals', who will keep adding new livestock to a tank, after unexplained deaths or disappearances. There are many potential causes, but it could also be that your tank is maxed out on how many fish it can support. Could be low dissolved oxygen when you hit X number of fish, could be a crab or mantis, could be disease, could be incompatibility, malnutrition...

Do you know where the fish are coming from and if they are quarantined before they go into your system?

These are all things you should know. Start asking questions before you cut that next check.

Jenn

 

[rdnelson]

Adding to the list of questions Jenn just gave, do you know how he acclimated the new fish?

While it is best not to name names hear (wouldn't want to bad mouth someone with circumstantial evidence) is the fish guy affiliated with a store?