Need advise on my sandbed

[curtismaximus]

I believe my sandbed is leaching PO4. It has not been cleaned in about a year. I'm not sure what is the best way to go about cleaning it. If I disturb the sand at all a large amount of grey detritus is released into the water column. I am considering going BB so I'm not afraid to remove all the sand if that is the best thing to do. All my coral are growing but I'm losing color on almost everything. Not sure what I should do so I would appreciate any advice.

 

[mattgee87]

I would remove or clean small amounts at a time as to not shock the system. Do NOT remove it all at once.

 

[axio]

That is a hard call on that one. You yourself will know best just how far gone / bad that sand really is. Definitely will need to be-careful removing it. Keep in mind right now a lot of your bacteria is living in the sand bed. If you remove it all at once you may crash your system. Even if you feel you have enough other things like live-rock to keep the biological up you can still want to take your time so the rest of your system can catch up. Also removing the sand with the coral still in the aquarium will surely stress them out even more, because no matter what it will be fairly messy.

It is one of the main reasons I personally always recommend against the no-gravel vacuum method. Too much risk in relying on critters in the sand bed to take care of all the waste.

 

[dapperjman]

Just curious how much sand you have? I like the look of it, but I don't want to add to much to my system.

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[torqued]

Keep flow high and this is much less of an issue. I don't think I would remove it. Just use a method to export the po4. Maybe u can stir a small area every few days. Don't do it all at once

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[curtismaximus]

aXio;1087913 wrote: That is a hard call on that one. You yourself will know best just how far gone / bad that sand really is. Definitely will need to be-careful removing it. Keep in mind right now a lot of your bacteria is living in the sand bed. If you remove it all at once you may crash your system. Even if you feel you have enough other things like live-rock to keep the biological up you can still want to take your time so the rest of your system can catch up. Also removing the sand with the coral still in the aquarium will surely stress them out even more, because no matter what it will be fairly messy.

It is one of the main reasons I personally always recommend against the no-gravel vacuum method. Too much risk in relying on critters in the sand bed to take care of all the waste.

Done you think I can remove all the coral then siphon or remove all the sand at one time? If not I'm thinking I will will remove the sandbed with water changes over the next few weeks. Do you think it will be safe to siphon the sand week after week for the next few weeks? This is a 20 gallon tank BTW.

 

[curtismaximus]

mattgee87;1087912 wrote: I would remove or clean small amounts at a time as to not shock the system. Do NOT remove it all at once.

I would definitely do it over a few weeks.

 

[camellia]

Curtismaximus;1087941 wrote: Done you think I can remove all the coral then siphon or remove all the sand at one time? If not I'm thinking I will will remove the sandbed with water changes over the next few weeks. Do you think it will be safe to siphon the sand week after week for the next few weeks? This is a 20 gallon tank BTW.

IMHO no, not all at once.

As stated by experience & knowledge (Jakub), the safest and best way is to take it slow. Keep in mind you will probably never get rid of all of the sand. It will be in the crevices of your rocks etc. and always be some on the bottom is long as that doesn't bother you, you will be fine, just go slow.
Otherwise if you decide to keep sand, you could start by removing one corner and after you've taken enough out in a few weeks you could add fresh to that corner only. Then continue untill you get all the old out and fresh back in.

If you have a large vacuum and 3/4" hose, take out a few cups a week with it. This will prevent the releasing of toxins into the water, just suck it up and out. If you want to borrow mine, I've got several and your welcome to it.

 

[camellia]

axio;1087913 wrote:

it is one of the main reasons i personally always recommend against the no-gravel vacuum method. Too much risk in relying on critters in the sand bed to take care of all the waste.

+++1

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

I am a newbie, but I am guessing the sand bed in a 20 gallon tank is not very deep and since it is a 20 gallon tank, would it be too disruptive to put everything but the sand in a different tank for a day then flush the sand out..assuming of course that the sand is a secondary treatment and not the sole biological treatment?

I swapped my 29 gal tank recently due to degraded seals. I had a po4 problem to start with so I rinsed the sand slightly with fresh saltwater, put it back, put the rock back...etc...then used a couple of gfo products for a couple of weeks. My po4 is in check now and so far I have seen no nitrates. I added 2 fish a few days ago so I am monitoring the amonia and nitrates. no problems thus far. I have just under a gallon of seachem matrix in my sump chamber, which is somewhere close to 10 times what I need, so I am guessing my sand was not a huge biofilter contributor...of course I am new and watching the tank closely with a full change of salt water ready if needed.

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added...I am the newbie here, so I am mostly asking ans saying what I have done. By no means do I say what I did is right or that any other experienced reefer is incorrect. I am learning experience matters a lot with reefing

 

[saltwaterwannabe]

SaltWaterWannabe;1087959 wrote: I am a newbie, but I am guessing the sand bed in a 20 gallon tank is not very deep and since it is a 20 gallon tank, would it be too disruptive to put everything but the sand in a different tank for a day then flush the sand out..assuming of course that the sand is a secondary treatment and not the sole biological treatment?

I swapped my 29 gal tank recently due to degraded seals. I had a po4 problem to start with so I rinsed the sand slightly with fresh saltwater, put it back, put the rock back...etc...then used a couple of gfo products for a couple of weeks. My po4 is in check now and so far I have seen no nitrates. I added 2 fish a few days ago so I am monitoring the amonia and nitrates. no problems thus far. I have just under a gallon of seachem matrix in my sump chamber, which is somewhere close to 10 times what I need, so I am guessing my sand was not a huge biofilter contributor...of course I am new and watching the tank closely with a full change of salt water ready if needed.

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added...I am the newbie here, so I am mostly asking ans saying what I have done. By no means do I say what I did is right or that any other experienced reefer is incorrect. I am learning experience matters a lot with reefing

and to further add, just to late for the same post...I was trying large water changes and dropped feeding dramatically. I think my po4 was leaching but that some resided in the rock and sand after the slight rinse. I only rinsed the sand for less than a minute in a 5 gal bucket and only what came out of a mag 7 pump...so the sand was not fully rinsed out. I am sure I did wrong and may be quite lucky. The advice of others is much more valuable than anthing I have to say here...so I will stop rambling now

 

[curtismaximus]

Should I siphon all of one section of the tank down to the bottom or should I siphon off the top first then farther down in a few days?

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[snowmansnow]

can you just give it a good cleaning instead of taking it all the way out?

 

[curtismaximus]

SnowManSnow;1088130 wrote: can you just give it a good cleaning instead of taking it all the way out?

Yes I'm sorry. When I say siphon out the sand I mean siphon the detritus out of the sand.

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[curtismaximus]

Update:

I used a siphon to vacuum up the detritus out of a 1/18 section of the sandbed. I cleaned all the way to the bottom of the sandbed. The water and detritus that was collected was absolutely disgusting. The water collected was a dark brown/yellow color. Everything seems to be reacting fine so far. All livestock is open and happy.

How long should I wait to siphon again?

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[jennm]

I second everything Jakub said.

Yellowed water is not unusual if you do not run carbon. I'd run some carbon, or fresh carbon if you do run it and it hasn't been changed in a while, and if you are concerned about nutrients being released back into the water being toxic (ie ammonia/nitrite and even nitrate) you can dose with Prime or Alpha to mitigate the risk.

I'd watch the water quality and use that to determine when to take the next step.

Jenn

 

[curtismaximus]

JennM;1088205 wrote: I second everything Jakub said.

Yellowed water is not unusual if you do not run carbon. I'd run some carbon, or fresh carbon if you do run it and it hasn't been changed in a while, and if you are concerned about nutrients being released back into the water being toxic (ie ammonia/nitrite and even nitrate) you can dose with Prime or Alpha to mitigate the risk.

I'd watch the water quality and use that to determine when to take the next step.

Jenn

Thanks for the tip I will add a few drops of Prime next time. Just to clarify I do run carbon and the water in my tank is clear. The yellow water is the stuff I pulled out of the sand bed. It was disgusting. How long should I wait until I siphon another portion?

 

[snowmansnow]

i think you're on the right track. i haven't personally EVER experienced adverse affects on corals or fish from cleaning my water too fast haha.
Cleaning the gravel isn't going to suck your bacteria out of the water...

I think you'll be just fine

 

[curtismaximus]

SnowManSnow;1088521 wrote: i think you're on the right track. i haven't personally EVER experienced adverse affects on corals or fish from cleaning my water too fast haha.
Cleaning the gravel isn't going to suck your bacteria out of the water...

I think you'll be just fine

Thanks for the input. I did another water change yesterday and everything is doing well. I will continue this process every once or twice a week until the sand is clean.

On a side note I switched to Red Sea Coral Pro salt. I hope this will help to increase growth, color, and PE with my SPS. Most of my Zoas are growing like weeds.

 

[axio]

If you are just siphoning and not actually removing the sand then there shouldn't be any issues to keep going every day or so. Safest choice obviously would be to test the water after everything settles down and make sure you didn't stir anything up to cause a nutrient spike. If everything tests fine then just keep on going.

The biggest risk with bacteria was if you were actually removing the sand.