Needs advise on ATO, dosing and Battery Back up please

[camellia]

I'm green to most of the useful equipment out, I've always had cubes.
With my new set up the sump is on the ground. It's apparent this isn't going to work for me long term (health issues). I have a small broom closet directly behind the DT that I'm going move the sump into and use for equipment and storage to the tank (via hole through the wall) but my space is still very limited.
I've made the costly mistakes of buying the wrong equipment, selling it for nothing and purchasing the correct items and can't afford to do this again. My funds are limited at the moment and I'm not sure which way (below) would be best the investment for long term.

Perhaps neither, sure would appreciate opinions and suggestions.

Current needs (I'm aware of) are battery back-up (power outages), ATO, dosing part 2 and filter cleaning. At some point I will want to run Kaulk in my ATO.


1. Should I buy the Apex Lite and use for my ATO and/or Battery Back up?
or
2. Buy the Tunze ATO & VorTech Battery back up and dose manually for now?

Thanks so much

 

[shanepike]

With limited funds, are any of those items absolutely necessary? You can manually do the ATO, and (based on your setup) a power outage might have little to no effect if you catch it within several hours -- which you'd have to anyway since a battery isn't a generator; the ones I know of only last a couple of hours.

 

[camellia]

ShanePike;824296 wrote: With limited funds, are any of those items absolutely necessary? You can manually do the ATO, and (based on your setup) a power outage might have little to no effect if you catch it within several hours -- which you'd have to anyway since a battery isn't a generator; the ones I know of only last a couple of hours.

Hey Shane,
Yes, this week my leg has told me to get an ATO ASAP. I believe there could be bad consequences if I don't listen (bruised & battered face/MS acting up).

So whatcha think is my best option, long term?

 

[shanepike]

Ahhh, totally understand. I'll have to let others weigh in, as I don't have any ATO experience yet. Still lugging jugs around

 

[rodasphoto]

I have an ato from avastmarine.com and really like it. It has kept my salinity spot on in my little biocube.

 

[eagle9252]

My ATO is working just fine on 3 tank setups. These are the things that I told you in the past.
It does not matter whether the sump is in the stand or in the closet behind it. Figure on 1.5g of lost water a day to be safe so it needs to house 10g of rodi. The container needs to be larger. You install a float in the ato. You can either install the tubing thru the floor in the laundry room and back up thru the floor in the closet or you can coil up the tube with a ball valve and fill the ato container once a week.
The float will stop the rodi from overflowing the ato and the auto shutoff on the rodi unit will stop the water from flowing waste water until you remember to shut it off. If you leave it on all the time the rodi water will not cycle and you will get old stale water. I personally have a manual timer hooked up and my ato is marked so I know I get about 1g per hr. I also have it hooked to my saltwater mixing station. So all I do is flip a couple of ball valves and I’m filling the sw side and mixing for a wc and or actually pumping sw in the tank. I have my sump drilled so all I have to do is turn another bv and it drains to a set level. When I have the sw already mixed I can literally do a wc in 15 min tops and don’t tote any buckets.

You need a container to hold the rodi and if you have room you add a mixing station.
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63036">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63036</a>
Above is a small write up I did for mine. I would increase the pump size as this was just a lil’week. I also have a 12vdc power supply now instead of the car battery. it actually runs 2 sets of relays for 2 separate tanks.

 

[eagle9252]

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[chefrepo]

Really two of the best investments I have ever made have been a controller and an ATO. I have no personal experience with the Apex (I am still using a Reefkeeper2) but I am very impressed with what they can do and will probably upgrade to one when my old RK2 finally jumps the shark.

 

[rdnelson]

I can't tell you what ATO is best because mine is DIY but I will say it was the best thing I built for my tank. Not only does it save a ton of headache, it will help maintain stabillity in the tank better than I would. I don't always turn on when I am supposed but my ATO does. hehehehehehehe

 

[camellia]

eagle9252;824335 wrote: My ATO is working just fine on 3 tank setups. These are the things that I told you in the past.
It does not matter whether the sump is in the stand or in the closet behind it. Figure on 1.5g of lost water a day to be safe so it needs to house 10g of rodi. The container needs to be larger. You install a float in the ato. You can either install the tubing thru the floor in the laundry room and back up thru the floor in the closet or you can coil up the tube with a ball valve and fill the ato container once a week.
The float will stop the rodi from overflowing the ato and the auto shutoff on the rodi unit will stop the water from flowing waste water until you remember to shut it off. If you leave it on all the time the rodi water will not cycle and you will get old stale water. I personally have a manual timer hooked up and my ato is marked so I know I get about 1g per hr. I also have it hooked to my saltwater mixing station. So all I do is flip a couple of ball valves and I’m filling the sw side and mixing for a wc and or actually pumping sw in the tank. I have my sump drilled so all I have to do is turn another bv and it drains to a set level. When I have the sw already mixed I can literally do a wc in 15 min tops and don’t tote any buckets.

You need a container to hold the rodi and if you have room you add a mixing station.
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63036">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63036</a>
Above is a small write up I did for mine. I would increase the pump size as this was just a lil’week. I also have a 12vdc power supply now instead of the car battery. it actually runs 2 sets of relays for 2 separate tanks.[/QUOTE]

Looks good Charles,
I've seen a few easy DYI ATO online but honestly I don't think it's worth the chance of flood damage. No kidding, my memory stinks and my deductible is $1,000 and I don't want to have to use it :)

At minimum I would have two float switches but like it says on the TO ATO, what caused the first to fail would best be avoided by using a different type second backup devise. The "eye" has very high reviews on the TO ATO.

The mention above about using the closet was explaining I would be raising this equipment off the ground (on shelves) for ease of use but that the closet was still small. I dont think a 10 gallon anything won't fit in it, it's only 20w x 15d x 67h and of that there's limited reachable area. Any ideas? I use about 3/4 gallon RODI a day.
As far as the $, it wouldn't be much more to buy the Apex and then DYI the breakout box (easy enough) and was hoping for input regarding best option for long term investment, product use review with Apex ATO etc.
Thanks

 

[kilralpine]

Controller is probably the best investment I can think of for a tank; aside from a good skimmer. I just use a cheap aqualifter for which I have spare (also cheap) replacement parts on hand for. I use a 5 gallon bucket and a float switch with a guard in the sump. Apex controls when it tops off (since I am doing RO+kalk) it only tops off at night time, I just have the float switch to prevent it from rising too high incidentally. Rather than investing in the break out box for the apex which would be nice, I just have the switch where it can disable the pump; with that all plugged into the apex. If you plan to run a skimmer keeping the sump level exactly the same all of the time is a must; both of these will help you do that.

I cant chime in on a solution for toting a 5 gallon bucket a week aside from waterchange time; as my SW mixing station is across the house and in the basement.

 

[camellia]

rdnelson99;824344 wrote: I can't tell you what ATO is best because mine is DIY but I will say it was the best thing I built for my tank. Not only does it save a ton of headache, it will help maintain stabillity in the tank better than I would. I don't always turn on when I am supposed but my ATO does. hehehehehehehe

Lol, that's a problem of mine as well! I'm sure Ill burn up my pump if I don't use a ATO!
I'm blond, :headbang:

 

[realfish]

I consider an ATO a must. Too many things can go wrong extremely quickly if the water isn't topped off. I have Radions and a Tunze ATO, so the Apex isn't much more than a fancy timer.

The Apex can do a lot if you Fully utilize it. Dosing, light timers, ATO, Kalk Stirrer, leak detection. I

 

[camellia]

kilralpine;824365 wrote: Controller is probably the best investment I can think of for a tank; aside from a good skimmer. I just use a cheap aqualifter for which I have spare (also cheap) replacement parts on hand for. I use a 5 gallon bucket and a float switch with a guard in the sump. Apex controls when it tops off (since I am doing RO+kalk) it only tops off at night time, I just have the float switch to prevent it from rising too high incidentally. Rather than investing in the break out box for the apex which would be nice, I just have the switch where it can disable the pump; with that all plugged into the apex. If you plan to run a skimmer keeping the sump level exactly the same all of the time is a must; both of these will help you do that.

I cant chime in on a solution for toting a 5 gallon bucket a week aside from waterchange time; as my SW mixing station is across the house and in the basement.

Nice idea on the switch. I found this on the breakout box, costs very little.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847474">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847474</a>
It sounds like your happy with the Apex :)

I am using a skimmer in the sump which will end up being not very effective half the time without ATO. I use a water tight trash can on wheels for mixing and moving water, but its awkward.
Thanks

 

[wakelust81]

Jbj ATO will have no complaints from me, but if I could do it all over, I would get a reekeeper plus from BRS. Does everything to include the dishes and laundry. I'm saving for one now. ATO is well worth it and depending on the size of your tank and the kind of livestock you have, you may not even have to spend money on dosing epuipment.

 

[camellia]

RealFish;824368 wrote: I consider an ATO a must. Too many things can go wrong extremely quickly if the water isn't topped off. I have Radions and a Tunze ATO, so the Apex isn't much more than a fancy timer.

The Apex can do a lot if you Fully utilize it. Dosing, light timers, ATO, Kalk Stirrer, leak detection. I

Hey you didn't finish.....

I also have the Radion and use 2mp10esw!

 

[eagle9252]

IMO… Simple is better. I just have never added the second float as you can see I have a place for the second on the float holder but if I were to add another float I would have to add 2 more instead, one over and one under the ato float.

Here is what I would do. The first one above the middle float would be to shut off the ato pump if the middle float (no= normally open) stuck in the down position (c= closed) an allowed the ato pump to continue to fill the sump. It would open the upper float (nc) which would open the relay and break the current flow to the relay and turn the ato pump off. This would insure the sump to not overfill.

The third float (nc) under the middle float would remain closed at all times. This one is not hooked to the ato pump it is actually a completely separate relay and its purpose would be if something happened and you had a tank leak or the ato ran out of water and the sump ran low of water it would open and turn the power off to the return pump which it could be hooked up to the skimmer and heater just to protect everything in the sump. All the floats should be in the return pump side as this is the only place that the water level will change.
As for your room in the closet. You could get 2 of these and put where ever you like. With proper floats installed the only thing you will have to do is add salt and turn some valves. The trick would be to get floats installed. But there are other kinds that allow you to remove the top which would be better but this was the first one I found. Check out my 120 build and it has some of the sw mixing station plumbed in the pantry.

No matter what you choose to use you will still have to get the rodi water to the closet. The pressure will push the rodi with no pumps needed to the closet. And with manual settings you don’t have to worry with power failure. As it will work when it comes back on.

You can add an inverter setup and have off-road batteries that stay charged up or hook up a generator outside and then put an auto switch over to keep the system running during a power failure but it is very costly.

 

[camellia]

eagle9252;824407 wrote: IMO… Simple is better. I just have never added the second float as you can see I have a place for the second on the float holder but if I were to add another float I would have to add 2 more instead, one over and one under the ato float.

Here is what I would do. The first one above the middle float would be to shut off the ato pump if the middle float (no= normally open) stuck in the down position (c= closed) an allowed the ato pump to continue to fill the sump. It would open the upper float (nc) which would open the relay and break the current flow to the relay and turn the ato pump off. This would insure the sump to not overfill.

The third float (nc) under the middle float would remain closed at all times. This one is not hooked to the ato pump it is actually a completely separate relay and its purpose would be if something happened and you had a tank leak or the ato ran out of water and the sump ran low of water it would open and turn the power off to the return pump which it could be hooked up to the skimmer and heater just to protect everything in the sump. All the floats should be in the return pump side as this is the only place that the water level will change.
As for your room in the closet. You could get 2 of these and put where ever you like. With proper floats installed the only thing you will have to do is add salt and turn some valves. The trick would be to get floats installed. But there are other kinds that allow you to remove the top which would be better but this was the first one I found. Check out my 120 build and it has some of the sw mixing station plumbed in the pantry.

No matter what you choose to use you will still have to get the rodi water to the closet. The pressure will push the rodi with no pumps needed to the closet. And with manual settings you don’t have to worry with power failure. As it will work when it comes back on.

You can add an inverter setup and have off-road batteries that stay charged up or hook up a generator outside and then put an auto switch over to keep the system running during a power failure but it is very costly.

That sounds good! I think I'm following you, my head is foggy (have a cold) it adds protection. Ill check out your build too.
thanks for your time and thought.

 

[camellia]

eagle9252;824407 wrote: IMO… Simple is better. I just have never added the second float as you can see I have a place for the second on the float holder but if I were to add another float I would have to add 2 more instead, one over and one under the ato float.

Here is what I would do. The first one above the middle float would be to shut off the ato pump if the middle float (no= normally open) stuck in the down position (c= closed) an allowed the ato pump to continue to fill the sump. It would open the upper float (nc) which would open the relay and break the current flow to the relay and turn the ato pump off. This would insure the sump to not overfill.

The third float (nc) under the middle float would remain closed at all times. This one is not hooked to the ato pump it is actually a completely separate relay and its purpose would be if something happened and you had a tank leak or the ato ran out of water and the sump ran low of water it would open and turn the power off to the return pump which it could be hooked up to the skimmer and heater just to protect everything in the sump. All the floats should be in the return pump side as this is the only place that the water level will change.
As for your room in the closet. You could get 2 of these and put where ever you like. With proper floats installed the only thing you will have to do is add salt and turn some valves. The trick would be to get floats installed. But there are other kinds that allow you to remove the top which would be better but this was the first one I found. Check out my 120 build and it has some of the sw mixing station plumbed in the pantry.

No matter what you choose to use you will still have to get the rodi water to the closet. The pressure will push the rodi with no pumps needed to the closet. And with manual settings you don’t have to worry with power failure. As it will work when it comes back on.

You can add an inverter setup and have off-road batteries that stay charged up or hook up a generator outside and then put an auto switch over to keep the system running during a power failure but it is very costly.

I went with the new Tunze. It was super easy to install and love it.