New tank purchase advise

[vetshep]

Hello,

I would appreciate some advice. I have been in the hobby for 20 or so years. Have never had a tank larger than 55g and am looking to upgrade. I currently have a 54g corner reef that is 15 years old and a 14g nano (attempting at becoming reef, but still a new setup). I've been an ARC stalker for years and joined up this fall.

I would like to upgrade to a 90, 110, or 120 rectangle reef tank. The foot print needs to be about 48" x 18" w but height is not an issue (except that I am 5'3").

I have been reading some horror stories about stand/tank failures or canopies that are very cumbersome. Doing some research online and there are almost no schematics and only 1 picture of the furniture. I can't see how the doors open or close, etc . . .

I have a canopy now that is not even 2 years old and almost shot from water damage on the inside, has no ventilation (except what I added) and only front doors - I have to remove the whole canopy to get to the overflow chamber. So, I have learned some things from past error but really do not want to regret this large of a purchase especially once it is set up.

I would like some advise on the tank, stand, canopy purchase and set up.
As well as sump size and set-up.

All advise will be appreciated but especially stuck on which brands. So all opinions are great - furniture you really like or really dislike, DIY or custom built (I'm handy but do not have experience building furniture/cabinets), etc . . . Set it up and level it myself or hire someone? I'd rather save the money (for a cooler toy) and DIY if this is a wise choice. I don't mind the labor. Tank will be on ground level, concrete slab.

Tricks to leveling, can you put it all the way up against the backwall if doing overflow?

Tricks to add water proofing to the stand, canopy - if this is not a waste of time.

Is acrylic really worth the extra cost on this size tank?

I have been looking at stand/canopies from marineland, aqueon, R&J. Leaning towards R&J but not sure why - maybe just because I have not heard anything bad about them ...

Should I get stand/tank from same manufacturer (which severely limits choices). I do NOT want an overflow in the back L corner because this will be visible - so no marineland tank.


<u>SUMP/FILTER ?'s </u>
Currently,I am using a wet/dry sump, canister filter w UV (reaction 4), protein skimmer (Coralife - dislike it) - so, those I know well.

How big of a sump? As big as can fit? Ideally, I'd like to leave enough floor space for a ATO container and whatever other filtration I decide on, but also need enough room in sump to accommodate extra water in a power outage (or what about using a stop valve to stop backwards water flow - reliable?)

Seems that wet/dry are outdated now?
What is the current trend - refugium, berlin (what the heck does this do?).

Reactors vs canisters?

I have always heard that UV's are questionable as they kill good microorganisms (copepods, etc) as well as bad?

I know this is a lot of questions but really want to figure out a cost/plan of the big stuff (tank, stand, canopy, sump) before I decide whether to proceed.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and, hopefully, passing on some hard earned wisdom.


PS - Just FYI, running all LEDS now. 6 12" stunner strips (exocotic) and a 24" Current USA Orbit Marine LED Aquarium Light (added after my T5 unit died). Would like to stay with LEDs but obviously upgrade for the larger tank. Maybe Kessil or EcoTech.

 

[jbdreefs]

Personally, I am not a fan of mass produced stand and canopies. Many are made from materials that suffer significantly from water and high moisture. It is totally worth buying a custom stand and canopy.

If you are limited to 48 x 18, I would only recomend the 90 because it is already pretty tall.

I will let others chime in on the other areas.

 

[jdavid]

JBDreefs;936660 wrote: Personally, I am not a fan of mass produced stand and canopies. Many are made from materials that suffer significantly from water and high moisture. It is totally worth buying a custom stand and canopy.

If you are limited to 48 x 18, I would only recomend the 90 because it is already pretty tall.

I will let others chime in on the other areas.

I agree with everything said here. If limited to 48x18 you'll either want to get a 75 or 90 gallon, preferably 90.

Go custom with the stand and canopy. PM Allen (username= Allen) about a custom stand (and canopy if desired). He did a great job on mine at an affordable price

ditch the coralife skimmer. I would look at the for sale forums for good deals on anything used, including the tank. In my upgrade the only thing that I have so far that I bought new was the stand and powerhead. Some things I bought "like new" but everything is in great condition. You can save a lot of $ without really losing too much life on equipment. The downside being that this does involve some waiting and obviously buying new has it's advantages also.

And as far as the sump goes you have options. You can buy a tank that has the desired dimensions and install baffles yourself. This is the best from a price standpoint and gives you the option to fully customize.

But again, I've seen some great deals on really high quality acrylic sumps from the best manufacturers, MRC being the best available sump on the market IMO. Something that I would like to own myself

Welcome to the ARC

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Wow that is a ton of good questions... Lets see if I can get through them in a timely manor.

Uggg. Besides a 55gal foot print, the foot print of a 90 gal is the second worst in my opinion. But if that is the space you have to work with then that is what you got to work with.

I personally ALWAYS have my stand and canopy built. I have a local craftsman who does mine (he is scatterbrained but he is a genius with wood) but I hear there are a lot of good people in the club who do good work. (ChicagoMan did a very nice one for me years ago if he is still around) Take your time designing your stand and canopy. It sucks to get it all made and then realize that you made a mistake or you wanted a change. visit plenty of tanks from people and take a tape measure. Do you like my stand that is higher so it is easier to stand up and see it but harder to get into or do you like a shorter stand. You are designing it, so you are in control. If you are doing an canopy, fans are a must to help with that humidity that is going to build up. Work them into you plan!

If your tank is drilled on the bottom then you can place the tank right against the wall, if it is not and drilled in the back or has an overflow box then you can't. I always like my tanks just a bit off the wall anyways but that is me.

Water proofing the stand is a must. You should poly all surfaces in your tands and canopy. For the inside of my stand I seal all the bottom joints with silicone to create a water tight bottom. Many people add a drain at this point but I don't. I have a water alarm that sits in the bottom of my stand and if water builds up I get alarmed. Granted this does not help me if I am not at home.

I would never own an acrylic tank personally. They scratch too easy. If it were me and I had the budget, I would do a starfire front glass tank.

Sumps are going to be hard with a 90 gallon. Finding a pre-made tank to tun into a sump is hard with that foot print. You can't use a 55 gal since it is 48" too, many of the smaller tanks are 18" wide so they will not fit either. So you are looking for a 36" x 13" tanks which is something like a 40 gallon. They are harder to come across. There is a way to offset your stand a bit and get a 55gal to work but it needs good planning and it needs to be a perfect fit. If I was doing a 90 gal, I would have a sump built or look for a sump that someone had built for a 90 gal. I would spend some extra money here because it is that important.

Yes a wet/dry does not work on a reef tank (if you wanted a fish only that would be different). You are wanting to go with a sump/refugium system.

IMHO, and I have big opinions on UV, They are a waste of money.

You do not need any reactors at this stage, again debatable on if you EVER need any reactors.

I can not answer LED questions. I took too big of a break from the hobby and missed the incoming trend of commercial LEDs (Al though I did build a LED system beck before commercial units were available). So I will leave the LED lighting questions to someone else.

As far as keeping costs down, I would do as suggested, buy as much ised as you can. Look on the forums here, look at craigslist, post a "wanting to buy" thread to get equipment. Most of us have a garage full of stuff for a tank.

Oh, again I said it above but it is worth repeating, Go visit other people's tanks. (I know my door is always open) see what you like about their system and what you don't. ask questions, see what they would change, and then research a lot yourself. That is the best way to come to a good decision about what you want and how much it is all going to cost.

 

[jeffmuse]

Great questions, here is what I would suggest:

Canopy: If you are going with LED fixtures, you have a couple of options... you can mount the individual fixtures within the canopy or you can ditch the canopy and use rails to mount the lights. I have done it both ways, and I PERSONALLY like the look of my tank without the canopy. If you go without, you get better circulation and heat exchange, but you run the risk of fish jumping out unless you add a screen/ barrier.

Tank Brand: I currently have a custom made MRC tank, but had a Marineland tank earlier in my reefing career. I LOVE my MRC tank, but the Marineland was serviceable and never failed me. It really comes down to budget... custom tanks and stands are always going to be better in that you get exactly what you want. If you are on a budget I would say that a brand name tank is the way to go. If you buy a used tank (there are a lot of good deals here on the forums) I would suggest filling the tank with fresh water and letting it sit for a day or two to make sure it does not leak.

Tank Size: I agree with the other posts that the 90 gallon is the best bet for the footprint you specified. One thing to think about: is your tank on the ground floor of your home or is it on a higher level? You would probably be ok having a 90 gallon on an upper level, but I would not go higher than that given the weight load that it puts on the floor.

Glass vs Acrylic: This is an age old debate in reefing, and I have done it both ways. At first I was sacred of acrylic due to how easy it can scratch; however I have come to think that acrylic is the best option (in my opinion). Acrylic is crystal clear and looks awesome. It is also very light and much more durable than glass.... when you hear about tank failures/ leaks it almost always comes from glass tanks. On the other hand, you do have to be careful with acrylic, especially when cleaning.

How big of a sump - I would settle on what skimmer you are going to use first and then build/ buy a sump that can accommodate that skimmer. Obviously the bigger the sump the better, but you are going to be somewhat constrained by the tank footprint (considering the sump is going under the tank).

Reactors vs Canisters - I would go with the reactors. There are a lot of good options and they are not very expensive.

UV sterilizer - This is another item that I have done it with and without and I think that the benefit is variable. I do notice that I have slightly clearer water when I use one; however, if you where on a budget, I would invest your money in the best skimmer that you can afford. UV's are ok to have, but I would not say that they are essential.

I hope this helps!

 

[vetshep]

You guys are awesome. It sounds like several of you feel the 48x18 footprint is fairly limited. If I could push it a bit further (who needs to dine in the dining room) and get something bigger - would a 48" x 24" footprint make all the difference in the world or what would be your fav's and why?

I am pretty frustrated with trying to fit a sump into the 55g corner - never thought about trying to fit a rectangular sump in a wedge shaped stand until I already had it. Live and learn.

It will be on a slab so weight is not an issue.

 

[jdavid]

48x18 is not bad. Either a 75 or 90 are both great tanks for reefs.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

IMHO if you can find something either 60"x18" or 48"x24" it would make a big difference. If it was the former you could fit a 55Gal for a sump under there with room to spare. If it was the other you could do a 50gal or a 30/40gal breeder tank for a sump. NOW, both those tank sizes are very rare for a display tank and pretty much custom. I personally would opt for the 48"x24" but I like deep tanks. I think you can do much more with the rock work. Then again, if you are going to try to keep a tang, he will love that lateral swimming room of a 60" long tank.

 

[fishlips]

Sounds like you would be happy with a 120. 48x24x24. Do not go with a plain basic pine stand.Have one built or upgrade to a quality one.

 

[vetshep]

Fishlips;936906 wrote: Sounds like you would be happy with a 120. 48x24x24. Do not go with a plain basic pine stand.Have one built or upgrade to a quality one.

Is there an upgraded quality brand/model you recommend?

Custom Builders: I have seen several reference to various builders on this forum. If there is someone that did an awesome job and you want to recommend, please tell me. I do see the names above and will touch base with them. Or, if there is someone that did not do a not so great job, you can pass that info along too (feel free to PM if that is more comfortable).

Thanks to everyone!

 

[jeffmuse]

vetshep;936909 wrote: Is there an upgraded quality brand/model you recommend?

Custom Builders: I have seen several reference to various builders on this forum. If there is someone that did an awesome job and you want to recommend, please tell me. I do see the names above and will touch base with them. Or, if there is someone that did not do a not so great job, you can pass that info along too (feel free to PM if that is more comfortable).

Thanks to everyone!

MRC is amazing. They are a sponsor here and do incredible work. Both my tank and sump are MRC and I could not be more pleased.

 

[heathlindner25]

vetshep;936909 wrote: Is there an upgraded quality brand/model you recommend?

Custom Builders: I have seen several reference to various builders on this forum. If there is someone that did an awesome job and you want to recommend, please tell me. I do see the names above and will touch base with them. Or, if there is someone that did not do a not so great job, you can pass that info along too (feel free to PM if that is more comfortable).

Thanks to everyone!

Pure Reef is close to you and stocks nothing but custom stands for you to look at.

 

[sn4k33y3z]

+1 on Pure

 

[vetshep]

Pure reef is my 'regular' store. I have been stalking their tanks/stands I will go and spend some more time touching and checking them out and start talking more. Thank you so much to everyone!!

 

[skriz]

Stand: unless you're skilled, dont diy it. Buy a pro version and you'll end up with a nicer product.

UV: if you buy an emperor, the yes. If not, then skip it.

Buy the best filtration you can. It'll make your life easier.

When you come across a deal, jump on it..it may not be there later!

 

[wannabeeareefkeeper]

I believe if you are torn between just a 75 gallon and a 90 gallon and you purchase the 75 gallon; down the road, you'll wish you had purchased the 90 gallon. [just my 1/2 cents]


Wannabee

 

[sea atlanta]

pm sent

 

[vetshep]

I am actually torn between a 90 and a 120. I need to keep length to 49" but can come deeper. Don't want to get too high because I am not dive certified and will need to be able to access the floor of the tank .

I would love to add a drain (just seems so much safer). But I am assuming on a concrete subfloor . . . that I would need to jack hammer a path to run a drain line to the outside? Not so sure I am up for that. Might try to fit the stand with some kind of basin and water alarm instead.

BUT - as it turns out, I have more to learn. I was up to date and my knowledge about reef keeping was sound . . . ah, 10-14 years ago. I have missed out on a lot of the new debates. But hey, I graduated college, got married, had 2 kids, & started a business during that time . . . guess something had to give. Anyway, I've been spending the weekend reading up and shortening my learning curve. My current tank (54 g reef) still has a wet/dry. This is a no-no now, but when I bought it "was the best thing ever". The substrate debate (DSB, phenom, BB) is all new to me and frankly a little confusing (sounds like there is not a consensus and that is why I am confused). Overflows: 1, 2, coast to coast, silent plumbing . . . acckkkk!

ANYWAY . . . I think you have all helped to keep me from making a massive mistake. Thank you for politely nudging me to learn more. I am going to continue to do research and see what I really want to accomplish, what makes sense to me after reviewing all the debates and how to do it correctly for now. I forgot that this is as much an art as a science.

My understanding of chemistry is sound and that doesn't change - just need to learn about the newer ways of manipulating it.

I will try to not be a pest but may have lots more questions to ask later on as I learn more.

Thank you all again so much!
Heather W.

 

[vetshep]

I am actually torn between a 90 and a 120. I need to keep length to 49" but can come deeper. Don't want to get too high because I am not dive certified and will need to be able to access the floor of the tank .

I would love to add a drain (just seems so much safer). But I am assuming on a concrete subfloor . . . that I would need to jack hammer a path to run a drain line to the outside? Not so sure I am up for that. Might try to fit the stand with some kind of basin and water alarm instead.

BUT - as it turns out, I have more to learn. I was up to date and my knowledge about reef keeping was sound . . . ah, 10-14 years ago. I have missed out on a lot of the new debates. But hey, I graduated college, got married, had 2 kids, & started a business during that time . . . guess something had to give. Anyway, I've been spending the weekend reading up and shortening my learning curve. My current tank (54 g reef) still has a wet/dry. This is a no-no now, but when I bought it "was the best thing ever". The substrate debate (DSB, phenom, BB) is all new to me and frankly a little confusing (sounds like there is not a consensus and that is why I am confused). Overflows: 1, 2, coast to coast, silent plumbing . . . acckkkk!

ANYWAY . . . I think you have all helped to keep me from making a massive mistake. Thank you for politely nudging me to learn more. I am going to continue to do research and see what I really want to accomplish, what makes sense to me after reviewing all the debates and how to do it correctly for now. I forgot that this is as much an art as a science.

My understanding of chemistry is sound and that doesn't change - just need to learn about the newer ways of manipulating it.

I will try to not be a pest but may have lots more questions to ask later on as I learn more.

Thank you all again so much!
Heather W.

 

[vetshep]

answered