General newbie question: If you were brand new to the saltwater aquarium world, and knowing that you have a 29gal BioCube, an LFS sells you a 4" Porcupine Puffer (for $70), a pair of clownfish, and a flame angel, then when after a month you realized the puffer was not suitable for the tank and it was getting way too dirty (even after two 5 gal water changes in 1 week, so you took the puffer back to the LFS and asked for a store credit to buy salt mix or something, and they give you $15 'take it or leave it' when they know you are an ARC member.... how would you feel about that? Fair?
Newbie LFS question
- Thread starter blitz224
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Time for you to find a new Lfs, not for the price they offer but for selling it to you in the first place.
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^^^^^^^ + 1 on what he stated. The store should have never offered the puffer for the size of the aquarium you have. I'd take my business elsewhere.
Wannabee
P.S. You did tell them that you were a newbie and the size of your aquarium? Sometimes people shop for things [fish] and the store is so busy; the important information maybe not brought out during the conversation with the employee. Or maybe, sometimes the employee is not very knowledgeable. If I'm not for sure about something, I'll usually post the question in the forums here at ARC to see other's view on my current dilemma. The dilemma part is not your situation now, but if I'm going to purchase some fish, I would post my complete aquarium setup and the list of fish I want to get, and ask advice on that specific dilemma. A very important question to ask from my fish wish list; what sequence should I add the fish. It matters which fish to put in first. Some advice from readers of my post may state to purchase certain fish first, add them to the aquarium, and then purchase the others so time down the road and add them last.
Wannabee
P.S. You did tell them that you were a newbie and the size of your aquarium? Sometimes people shop for things [fish] and the store is so busy; the important information maybe not brought out during the conversation with the employee. Or maybe, sometimes the employee is not very knowledgeable. If I'm not for sure about something, I'll usually post the question in the forums here at ARC to see other's view on my current dilemma. The dilemma part is not your situation now, but if I'm going to purchase some fish, I would post my complete aquarium setup and the list of fish I want to get, and ask advice on that specific dilemma. A very important question to ask from my fish wish list; what sequence should I add the fish. It matters which fish to put in first. Some advice from readers of my post may state to purchase certain fish first, add them to the aquarium, and then purchase the others so time down the road and add them last.
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No. That's brutal.
There's a fine line these guys need to ride about being in business to make money short term and having customers come back long term. Many of them don't get it that there's a lot of money to be by doing the right thing even if it costs a little bit up front.
Some stores will sell you anything you ask for, some will ask questions to make sure you know what you're getting into, and a few will refuse to sell you something that they know won't work out. The onus is on us, the hobbyist, to research before we buy. If they knew you had a 29gal BC, IMO they shouldn't have let you but the puffer. That being said, we weren't there for any of the conversation. We also don't know if anything was misunderstood. Don't take this wrong but understand where I'm coming from when I say we're only hearing your side of the story.
If I walked into a store, sponsor or not, said I had a 29gal BC, and listed your stocking list as the fish I would want to buy, and they let me purchase those items I would be disappointed. And I would then go elsewhere. I've purchased most of my fish from 2 sponsor stores. I trust them mainly because they ask what I'm interested in and then ask what size tank do I have and sometimes ask how it's stocked. I know they're trying to not just make a sale but make sure I'm setting myself up for success.
As to the repurchase price, I don't know as I've never tried to take anything back. You might get more than that selling on the forum. If you've taken your issue up with the store owner and still are not satisfied then I would find another LFS to business with. That's how things always are in retail. I'm not saying that they're right or that you are. But if I'm dissatisfied and think I have legitimate complaint, I take my business elsewhere.
Thanks for the comments. I definitely should not have bought that fish and regret not researching on my own ahead of time. But I bought the tank unused from a former employee of the LFS and then got all my startup sand, salt, rock, fish, etc from there. Honestly I was more confused by the fact they kept insisting it should be ok if I just bought more equipment. In the end I did what I thought was best for the fish and got it out of the too-small tank.
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Yeah, you did the right thing. Not sure there's enough equipment made to keep puffer in a stock biocube. Suppose you could build a 120gal sump to go under it!
In all seriousness, lesson learned. A tough one at that. We all desperately want to trust our LFS. I've been fortunate to spend time at some good ones. Even then, I tread carefully.
That's a bad selling technique from the store in my opinion.
It's always recommend that the hobbyist take the time and research on what he's trying to get, no discussion here. But in a perfect world the store owner knows what he's offering, that being said, there's a lot of delicate and dangerous livestock involved in the hobby, poisonous fish, palytoxin poisonous corals, even live rock that would transfer you an unusual virus if you don't properly handled. That's only some of the things a started hobbyist should know and be informed, but what about when you are a costumer that's being faithful to the store and receive this treating in change???
At least the store should take the time to briefly have explained to the costumer what he was getting in the good practice of a fair business and for the good future of the pet. That's my opinion.
It's always recommend that the hobbyist take the time and research on what he's trying to get, no discussion here. But in a perfect world the store owner knows what he's offering, that being said, there's a lot of delicate and dangerous livestock involved in the hobby, poisonous fish, palytoxin poisonous corals, even live rock that would transfer you an unusual virus if you don't properly handled. That's only some of the things a started hobbyist should know and be informed, but what about when you are a costumer that's being faithful to the store and receive this treating in change???
At least the store should take the time to briefly have explained to the costumer what he was getting in the good practice of a fair business and for the good future of the pet. That's my opinion.
To be fair, they did say up front that the puffer would outgrow the tank in about a year. Although maybe true from a physical size perspective that was not my experience in terms of the filtration capability of the BC.
Lesson learned. Looking forward to better times with my new hobby.
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Lesson learned. Looking forward to better times with my new hobby.
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I'm glad to see you found a bigger home for the puffer. If you have any questions on your new hobby, you can post them here? Better yet; join us on February 21 at Sea Atlanta for our monthly ARC meeting. These meetings are great with information gathering on ReefKeeping. Be warned! Meetings can get addictive. It's great to just chit chat on something we all love and that's ReefKeeping. This is your official invitation to join us. Tell them at the [sign in] table that "Wannabee invited me." You really don't need an official invitation or ticket to come out for some chit chat on ReefKeeping. Hope to see you there.
P.S. I should have stated this in my initial post "Welcome to the ARC!" Glad to see another ReefKeeper that has found the Atlanta Reef Club. I can post the link for more information on February's meeting if you like. It's located at the top of the homepage here at the ARC website.
First and foremost, welcome to ARC 
Here's a bit of perspective from one who spent MANY years on the seller's side of the counter... please don't read me as harsh - I'm not, I promise. I am going to be rather matter-of-fact though. You've learned a very important lesson in this experience, so my post is intended to help you avoid a repeat, because it can and will happen again unless you're prepared to avoid it
First off - trading back to the store for store credit: You will only be offered a fraction of what the fish cost at retail. That is how stores make money, we buy at wholesale, and sell at retail. I know some people think that's evil, but that's how the world works. That's what pays the rent, the employees, keeps the lights on.... and that's the same math that applies to EVERY business on the planet. Many stores have a livestock sales are FINAL policy so if they offered to take it back, even without credit, you're lucky because I know of a handful of places that livestock is exit-only. Why should they offer you more for it, than it would cost them to buy another one from their wholesaler? Rather than being miffed that you only got a bit of what you paid for it, be glad that 1) They would take it off your hands, and 2) They gave you something back for it. They are assuming the risk that the fish will still be healthy and its upkeep until somebody else buys it. So while you might perceive it as a bit of a ripoff, I'm politely suggesting that there was more goodwill in the gesture to take it back and give you some credit for it, than you might have thought. I'd call that one in the 'plus' column. Being an ARC member makes no difference - in fact... some shopkeepers - even sponsors - don't like ARC members because we tend to be a cheapskate bunch
So that is not a plus for you other than presenting proof of membership for a discount at the register.
Secondly - you bought it, it's your responsibility. I really do say that respectfully. At the end of the day, the buyer is the one that makes the choice to purchase or not purchase and nobody held a gun to your head to do it. That's a huge issue in this hobby - impulse buying without having all the information about what you're buying, before you buy it. After all, it smiled at you, didn't it? With those blue glazed eyes, and ET grin... nobody can resist a puffer. They're adorable. They learn to recognize their keepers and will spit water at you and wag their little tails - they are like dogs with fins. Nobody will blame you for being drawn to a puffer, not me anyway.
Having said that, anybody who knows me and how I ran my business, will attest that I would spend just as much time un-selling something that was likely to be a bad choice, but it appears that I, along with a very few others, am the exception. Many hobbyists liken LFS salespeople to used-car salespeople, we're out to get you. Best defense? Educate yourself. Pick up a copy of Scott Michael's Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Fishes for $20-30 and bring it with you to the store. I used to have a well-worn copy on the front counter and everybody used it. "How big will this fish get? What does it eat? Is it too big for my tank?" While there are a few bits of info in that book I find questionable, over 95% of it is spot-on. Then you can check an unbiased third party for the information without either buying blind, or relying on somebody who may or may not be as experienced as you think they are. Before I started working in the trade I had that book and Julian Sprung's "Corals: A Quick Reference Guide" and I'd take them to a store with me so I could research. Of course nowadays with a smartphone you can pretty much do online research right in the store. Do it. Save yourself a lot of aggro.
If the puffer was polluting your tank (I am guessing he was about golf-ball sized?), then you were likely over-feeding it. While it isn't a suitable long-term inhabitant, a small specimen would do OK in that size tank for a little while - but you wouldn't be keeping corals, or inverts with it, or even smaller fishes as those are all menu items. That and sum total of fishes for a small tank was over-stocking, IMO but again - that comes down to doing some research first.
At the end of the day, stores are in it to make money. Sometimes people get offended if a store clerk or owner suggests that the customer's choice may not be ideal (I've had my share of that too - respectfully suggesting that something was a bad idea, only to be told that the buyer knows what he/she is doing, so shut up and bag it up). I'm not suggesting you did that but plenty of LFS staffers just won't question anybody's choices, so maybe the person who would have benefited by that conversation, never get to have it.
We are here to help. I've made just about every mistake there is to make in my 25+ years in the hobby and trade - as a group here we try to help people get past their mistakes, and help prevent new ones, so I'm glad you're here and I hope we can be of help going forward.
Jenn
Here's a bit of perspective from one who spent MANY years on the seller's side of the counter... please don't read me as harsh - I'm not, I promise. I am going to be rather matter-of-fact though. You've learned a very important lesson in this experience, so my post is intended to help you avoid a repeat, because it can and will happen again unless you're prepared to avoid it
First off - trading back to the store for store credit: You will only be offered a fraction of what the fish cost at retail. That is how stores make money, we buy at wholesale, and sell at retail. I know some people think that's evil, but that's how the world works. That's what pays the rent, the employees, keeps the lights on.... and that's the same math that applies to EVERY business on the planet. Many stores have a livestock sales are FINAL policy so if they offered to take it back, even without credit, you're lucky because I know of a handful of places that livestock is exit-only. Why should they offer you more for it, than it would cost them to buy another one from their wholesaler? Rather than being miffed that you only got a bit of what you paid for it, be glad that 1) They would take it off your hands, and 2) They gave you something back for it. They are assuming the risk that the fish will still be healthy and its upkeep until somebody else buys it. So while you might perceive it as a bit of a ripoff, I'm politely suggesting that there was more goodwill in the gesture to take it back and give you some credit for it, than you might have thought. I'd call that one in the 'plus' column. Being an ARC member makes no difference - in fact... some shopkeepers - even sponsors - don't like ARC members because we tend to be a cheapskate bunch
So that is not a plus for you other than presenting proof of membership for a discount at the register.Secondly - you bought it, it's your responsibility. I really do say that respectfully. At the end of the day, the buyer is the one that makes the choice to purchase or not purchase and nobody held a gun to your head to do it. That's a huge issue in this hobby - impulse buying without having all the information about what you're buying, before you buy it. After all, it smiled at you, didn't it? With those blue glazed eyes, and ET grin... nobody can resist a puffer.
They're adorable. They learn to recognize their keepers and will spit water at you and wag their little tails - they are like dogs with fins. Nobody will blame you for being drawn to a puffer, not me anyway.Having said that, anybody who knows me and how I ran my business, will attest that I would spend just as much time un-selling something that was likely to be a bad choice, but it appears that I, along with a very few others, am the exception. Many hobbyists liken LFS salespeople to used-car salespeople, we're out to get you. Best defense? Educate yourself. Pick up a copy of Scott Michael's Pocket Expert Guide to Marine Fishes for $20-30 and bring it with you to the store. I used to have a well-worn copy on the front counter and everybody used it. "How big will this fish get? What does it eat? Is it too big for my tank?" While there are a few bits of info in that book I find questionable, over 95% of it is spot-on. Then you can check an unbiased third party for the information without either buying blind, or relying on somebody who may or may not be as experienced as you think they are. Before I started working in the trade I had that book and Julian Sprung's "Corals: A Quick Reference Guide" and I'd take them to a store with me so I could research. Of course nowadays with a smartphone you can pretty much do online research right in the store. Do it. Save yourself a lot of aggro.
If the puffer was polluting your tank (I am guessing he was about golf-ball sized?), then you were likely over-feeding it. While it isn't a suitable long-term inhabitant, a small specimen would do OK in that size tank for a little while - but you wouldn't be keeping corals, or inverts with it, or even smaller fishes as those are all menu items. That and sum total of fishes for a small tank was over-stocking, IMO but again - that comes down to doing some research first.
At the end of the day, stores are in it to make money. Sometimes people get offended if a store clerk or owner suggests that the customer's choice may not be ideal (I've had my share of that too - respectfully suggesting that something was a bad idea, only to be told that the buyer knows what he/she is doing, so shut up and bag it up). I'm not suggesting you did that but plenty of LFS staffers just won't question anybody's choices, so maybe the person who would have benefited by that conversation, never get to have it.
We are here to help. I've made just about every mistake there is to make in my 25+ years in the hobby and trade - as a group here we try to help people get past their mistakes, and help prevent new ones, so I'm glad you're here and I hope we can be of help going forward.
Jenn
