Newbie planning for 1st Reef Tank...

[giulianom]

Hello everyone,

I have been tinkering with freshwater tropical tanks for a few years now, and I have been wanting to delve (dive?) into saltwater tanks.

Specifically, I want to do a coral tank with some fish and other assorted critters, and I'm looking for some advice on where to start.


Questions:

Should I get an acrylic, or glass (normal, or sapphire/starphire)?

I think I'd prefer acrylic, but I am not sure with the scratching, etc..


I'd love to start off with a larger tank, something 4' to 6' wide to display in my living room, perhaps in the 90+ gallon range, preferably rectangular.

It would be located on the 1st floor of my house (built 1986), over a garage, and probably located against an outside wall - do I need to be concerned with weight for a larger tank?

I'm not sure what's "best" - 90? 120? 135? - in terms of physical dimensions, tall vs shallow, etc..


Also, I have been reading over at Garf.org about their "bullet proof reef" with the deep sand bed and plenum... Is that actually viable, or is a sump + refugium or something else best?


I am a patient person, and I'm willing to start out large and wait the requisite weeks/months to get everything cycled properly.


I'm in Lawrenceville, and have been to the LFS nearby - Avarium, Nemo Fish, Atlanta Aquarium... Lovely places.


Suggestions / advice welcome.

 

[db366]

IMO a 4x2x2 120 makes a amazing reef tank. I am not 100% on the weight issue I would think it would be okay going against the floor joists. I think the whole deep sand bed thing is a preference, I prefer to have a 1-2 inch sand bed. Sump + fuge would be the way to go imo.

Take it slow and do it right the first time.

 

[cr500_af]

Welcome!

As for size, of the range you mentioned, the 120 is hard to beat IMO. It's worth every cent over a 90g just because the extra 6" of depth looks so much better... and the same lighting will cover both (though if you use T5s you can get a couple more bulbs over a 120). Any 4' tank on floor joists is no issue at all if your house is built to anything resembling construction standards/codes.

I'm personally a fan of glass tanks, especially in "normal" sizes. When you start getting BIG, then acrylic starts to be more attractive due to weight and the cost (acrylic costs more than glass, but the costs go more in favor of acrylic in the big ones... plus there is a limit to how big a sheet of glass is readily available).

You are doing well by doing your research. Too many people buy stuff, throw it together and then spend the time that should have been "homework" on solving problems.

I'll go ahead and put on the asbestos underwear and say that live rock/shallow sand bed/sump/protein skimmer is the only way to go. Plenums have had their chance and they didn't stand the test of time. The "old tank syndrome" that used to be a common phrase was the eventual crash due to plenum/undergravel systems that trapped so much waste, that eventually the nutrient sink just took the whole thing down. In that time, it was not uncommon for hobbyists to have to "tear down and reset" the whole tank every year or so. To be fair, much of this opinion comes from reading (I've only been in the hobby for about 2.5 years), but it comes from respected sources and it passes the logic test to boot.

The best advice I can offer is go slow (you'll hear that about a thousand times), and research your equipment... you know the old adage, buy cheap=buy twice.

We hope you enjoy the club and keep asking away! Come to the meetings if you can, meet people and ask questions. Most people would be happy to show off their systems and that will help you more than you realize.

 

[giulianom]

A 4x2x2 120g tank was what I had in mind...

If I go acrylic, where should I get it?

I've looked at Glasscages.com as a reference, and I know that My Reef Creations isn't far away, just to name a few sources.

Also not sure as to what's best for overflows, etc...


As for the location, the tank would sit parallel to the joists due to it being the side of the house.

Edit: Also, I plan to come to the June meeting...

When is it?

 

[cr500_af]

I don't know much about GC's acrylic tanks, but MRC's are very, very nice.

The meetings are normally the second Tuesday of each month.

 

[morganatlanta]

Can you put the sump down in the garage? If you can, I'd recommend it. I don't have a garage or basement, so I have to squeeze everything into the cabinet, which is a huge constraint. If I could, I'd have a HUGE refugium in my system, but I can't...

I wouldn't go acrylic unless you found a really good reason to do so. I just scratches too easily.

I would definitely go with a tank that is 24" front to back, like the 120 or a 180. I have a 125, which is 6'x18", and wish I had that extra room.

I would recommend buying the contents of someone's reef, including liverock and basic polyps, mushrooms, etc., to start off. That way, you won't have to go through the long cycle period with nothing in the tank, it will be more stable sooner, and it will be much, much less expensive than buying frags for all that stuff.

The plenum is a bit old school. You can have a deep sand bed, but the thinking now is that is more driven by what you want to keep (like jawfish) than by a strong benefit for nitrogen processing.

For overflows, look into the "Herbie" style. That style is dead silent, but you really have to plan for it at the start.

 

[giulianom]

The chosen location is over the garage, but it's right over the garage door so I'd have to have a really long plumbing run to have the sump in the basement.


Here's the underside of the general area:

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The only other spot I had in mind is against a wall that is backing the 1st floor bathroom - which would be convenient for water access..

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That spot would be just in front of the water pipes and drain shown above...

However, it's right next to an outside door that goes out to my deck, so the space might be a bit tight.


I'll see if I can do a sketchup drawing of the room.

 

[giulianom]

The garage isn't insulated, and while the adjacent basement room is finished, its not insulated either.

I'll clean out the living room this weekend and take some pics to illustrate...

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[giulianom]

So I got a PM from a forum member, with a possible tank setup for sale...


It's http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54216">THIS</a> one - a 150 gallon acrylic - which I presume is 60x24x24.

I'm going to see if I can look at it this weekend..


Thoughts?

 

[1percula]

Maybe it just me, but I would certainly want to buy a new tank. Never know if rock has been dropped on the glass or if it has been handled by the sides or whatever. Too much of a chance to take for me. My 2 cents. Nice setup tho.

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[giulianom]

Its a custom acrylic tank, made from 3/4" acrylic, with a sump made from 1/2"..

Does a 5' length make it awkward for lighting?


Sounds like I'd need scuba gear to service the tank...

 

[morganatlanta]

Probably hard to find stock lighting that length, but if you go LED, you tend to just buy a number of smaller units and hook them together, so the length doesn't matter much.

As long as you can keep the area above 65 in the winter and below 78 in the summer, you'd probably be alright. Your basement may stay in that range anyway. Looks like you'd be right next to the furnace. If needed you could tap off one of the ducts coming out of that.

 

[smallblock]

I hate acrylic I wouldnt have it if you gave it to me. My friend has like a 180 and if you look at it from the side you can see the front bowing. I love the dims of a 120 and would go AGA or Oceanic.

 

[morganatlanta]

I had a bad experience with an acrylic 30 gallon getting scratched, but then I scratched a glass 125 too...

But, I'd still take glass over acrylic unless I was building something that was just impossible with glass.

One advantage that is touted for acrylic is that it is light. But your going to need a couple guys to move any reasonably sized tank, glass or acrylic, so I don't see the advantage there. Some people say it is clearer, but I can't say that I notice my glass being not clear enough, aside from the fact that it could use a good scraping, and you can always go with "starfire" glass if regular isn't good enough for you.

Another "advantage" of acrylic is that is insulates better than glass, but I see that as a disadvantage. In the summer, I want the thing to let the heat out into the room, not hold in.

 

[grayskwerel]

Over that garage door is not an ideal location... you should go perpendicular to the joists, not parallel. Best bet would be against an exterior wall as well. The weight load will be spread through 1-2 joists and a 3/4" sheet of plywood at best. The tank should be up against a load bearing wall with joists perpendicular to the load bearing wall. If not... the floor will likely begin to sag over a few months. Water weighs 8.35 lbs / gallon. Multiply that by the size of the tank in gallons and add the approximate weight of the tank, stand, sump and everything else in it and you will see that a 48" x 18" footprint of a 90 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump will easily weigh in excess of 1,100 lbs. The 18" depth of the tank will stand over 1-2 joists which are spaced at 16" apart. If perpendicular to the joists it will be spread over 3 joists and be up against a load bearing wall.

 

[giulianom]

How about against the inside wall, perpendicular to the joists?

The support in the garage underneath consists of two steel columns supporting a laminated center beam running down the middle of the garage..

 

[giulianom]

I think I may have to get a structural engineer on to look at the support beams.

The area I think will work is right over a 6-8" wide laminated wood center support beam, which has rafters attached to either side.

The beam is supported in the middle by two hollow steel support columns, which rest on the garage's concrete floor...


How do I find a suitable person to judge the structural integrity of the support?

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[giulianom]

So I went over to see the 150g acrylic tank this morning, as shown in this http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54216">thread</a>, and it's simply amazing...

Front and sides are 3/4" acrylic (**** thick), and the back is 1/2".

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uASYNl.jpg alt="" />
(Full Size)

>http://i.imgur.com/uASYN.jpg</a>

The overflow is "shallow" in the tank, in that it sticks in only about an inch or so and mostly hangs out the back.

I believe it's already set up with the silent "Herbie" overflow plumbing.

alt="" />
(Full Size)

>http://i.imgur.com/PFcpb.jpg</a>


Here is the sump/fuge:

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(Full Size)

>http://i.imgur.com/0Vd7y.jpg</a>


I don't know if I will actually buy THIS specific tank, but it's a sight to see.

Seeing it confirmed my thoughts that I wanted a wider 5'x2'x2' 150g tank rather than the narrower 120g 4'x2'x2'.

 

[giulianom]

So I worked out a simple room layout for the living room that I want to put el humungo tank in.

The outside wall that is perpendicular to the joists is blocked by a window, a fireplace, and an external door that goes out to the deck.

However, the inside wall that is across from the fire place is directly above the center support beam that runs down the middle of the garage, which supports the rafters and itself is supported by two steel support columns in the garage.


I'm thinking that against the inner wall is the best place for a tank, even if I have to reinforce the support beam underneath.

Top View

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Underneath

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[grayskwerel]

The inside wall is fine as long as it has the support beams under it (load bearing wall, no need to reinforce it). I too am new to "reefing" and have converted my 90 gallon which I have had for almost 20 years from freshwater to saltwater in Feb of this year. I just put 4 new sps frags in Friday night for a total of 7 plus some mushrooms.