Options for Ca Rx Regulator

[ripped tide]

SnowManSnow;818541 wrote: I think its the solenoid that goes bad on most systems... from what I understand.

So keep helping me out here.

I measure my PH inside my reactor? or at the output in the sump? This should be my target PH for my display ?the reactor you are buying has a second chamber that buffers the effluent's ph back up to 7.00. You want to measure the ph inside the reaction chamber

If the PH rises to high the would be controller / probe shuts the reactor pump down correct.. ?when the ph in the reaction chamber is too low, the controller turns the solenoid off, closing the gas flow. When the ph in the reactor is too high, a controller will turn the solenoid on and allow the gas to flow

also, how does a dual chamber reactor play into this as far as keeping the ph more stable?in the reaction chamber, often the ph will be low: 6.2-6.7. The second chamber does not have a constant recurring flow of co2 to keep the ph low. In that second chamber, the media dissolves and buffers the ph back up to around 7.00-7.20

thanks again for any help

See bold

 

[sewer urchin]

When I was trying to get a handle on how to run the set up this thread helped a lot

 

[grouper therapy]

Sewer Urchin;818554 wrote: When I was trying to get a handle on how to run the set up this thread helped a lot

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56499&highlight=Fine+tuning">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56499&highlight=Fine+tuning</a>[/QUOTE]
that is a good write up. Although I do not understand using a bubble counter if one is using a controller?

 

[ripped tide]

grouper therapy;818571 wrote: that is a good write up. Although I do not understand using a bubble counter if one is using a controller?

I don't use a bubble counter. I let the apex deal with all of that.

These may be a few reasons some may want the bubble counter:
Ease of mind. Precision. A fun toy to tinker with.

 

[ichthyoid]

If you have both a controller and a bubble counter, you could dial it in to just a little more CO2 flow than there needs to be using the counter, then allow the controller to have the final say.

That is about as close to redundant and failsafe as you can get, without having a second controller, is it not?

 

[acroholic]

grouper therapy;818571 wrote: that is a good write up. Although I do not understand using a bubble counter if one is using a controller?

It is not necessarily an elective option to use/not use a bubble counter. Many calcium reactor have built in bubble counters. All of mine do (GEO). So it is not really having a choice in the matter.

But I would want to use one anyways, as Dylan and Bill said, for precision. Ideally, I would like to use just enough CO2 to keep the reactor pH steady so the regulator is on 24/7, but that level of precision is not quite there for me, so I keep the amount of gas at just above what the reactor uses, and it is on most of the time, and turns off much less frequently than say, if I had a high bubble count (no counter) going into the reactor, and the reactor pH spikes downward for an extended period of time until the controller activates it again, and this is repeated. A lower bubble count helps maintain a steadier KH in the tank, with much smaller spikes in the reactor KH, and more even media dissolution and subsequent release into the tank.

Plus, if you use too much CO2 you can waste it. Past a certain bubble count rate you will just pass it out the effluent line. A bubble counter helps avoid that was well. I dislike swapping out and exchanging CO2 cylinders, so the longer I can make them last, the better for me. CO2 is cheap, but hauling cylinders and driving places to swap out cylinders is a pain, IMO.

 

[grouper therapy]

Interesting I found my controller able to maintain a very consistent reactor pH level. I would think that more cycles would be more stable than extended lowering of the reactor ph and then an extended raising of the reactor pH. The longer period would enable the system to respond to the lowered levels while the quicker cycles could prevent that.

 

[grouper therapy]

Acroholic;818579 wrote: It is not necessarily an elective option to use/not use a bubble counter. Many calcium reactor have built in bubble counters. All of mine do (GEO). So it is not really having a choice in the matter.
.

Built in or not doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. :confused2:
The needle valves use in conjunction with the bubble counter to set the level is what I question versus using the controller. I would assume that the efficiency of one's reactor to distribute/utilize the co2 would come into play as well.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

IMO, the only reason a bubble counter is necessitated in a controller operated regulator/solenoid, is if you have no way of monitoring HOW MUCH CO2 youre dumping in at once. If you are just unloading massive amounts of CO2 in, by the time the the pH probe detects the lower limit and tells the solenoid to close, the pH will still dive due to residual high amounts of CO2. A lag effect. However, if dosing it in in an appropriate amount, the lag effect will be minimalized. Dosing it in too slowly, you'll never reach you're lower limit. A bubble counter can allow you to visual assess the dosage of CO2.

I personally dont use them (I have another method of accounting for dosing of CO2), but that can be useful.

 

[sewer urchin]

I personally dont use them (I have another method of accounting for dosing of CO2), but that can be useful.

I'm curious Jeremy, could you explain more? (if you don't want to post herePM would be fine as well)

Interesting I found my controller able to maintain a very consistent reactor pH level

I'm also curious about what pH controllers people use. At the moment I'm at a toss up, I have American Marine Pinpoint pH controller hooked up now ( mostly because it came with the system and I don't have unplug stuff form the EB8, but the real reason is because I'm to cheap to get the extra pH module-I should have listened). With time I hope to simplify and integrate it into the Apex. What are other peoples thoughts?

 

[snowmansnow]

Ripped Tide;818550 wrote: See bold

Oh

I need to do some research on the digital regulator I have coming and see how it plays into all this...

Edit: OK.. because this discussion is morphing into another.. I'm going to create a new thread to discuss the regulator..

 

[acroholic]

grouper therapy;818600 wrote: Interesting I found my controller able to maintain a very consistent reactor pH level. I would think that more cycles would be more stable than extended lowering of the reactor ph and then an extended raising of the reactor pH. The longer period would enable the system to respond to the lowered levels while the quicker cycles could prevent that.

I have fewer cycles because my reactor uses up the entering CO2 in about the same amount as it is entering it. I bubble in just a little bit more than the reactor can use, and my controller hysteresis is very low, like .01.

An extended period of lower pH in the reactor would dissolve more media and release more than is necessary into the water column, whereas maintaining fewer dips in reactor pH with just what CO2 is needed (or close to it) releases very close to actual demand. And you adjust this based on a stable KH reading in your tank.

grouper therapy;818605 wrote: Built in or not doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. :confused2:
The needle valves use in conjunction with the bubble counter to set the level is what I question versus using the controller. I would assume that the efficiency of one's reactor to distribute/utilize the co2 would come into play as well.

Of course you don't have to use it, but I meant it is there no matter what you do, and gives you a visual indicator of how much gas is going into the reactor whether you pay attention to it or not.

The controller is a safety net for the needle valve adjustments, with the needle valve just delivering what the reactor needs in order to maintain a stable KH in the tank.

Same thing as what you do, with the idea being it greatly lessens the dips in ph that occur with a high amount of CO2 going into the reactor vs a Just In Time type CO2 delivery method where CO2 input is very close to CO2 demand, in order to maintain a stable KH in the tank.

 

[grouper therapy]

I guess that is the difference I am using the controller for a controller and you are using it for a safeguard. I found it super easy to set it up by adjusting the ph set point in the reactor with the controller and let the drip rate stay above usage rate not wide open. With that said my method does not require the more expensive digital solenoid. And the shorter more frequent cycles Helps with the longevity of the less expensive solenoids.

 

[ripped tide]

grouper therapy;818743 wrote: I guess that is the difference I am using the controller for a controller and you are using it for a safeguard. I found it super easy to set it up by adjusting the ph set point in the reactor with the controller and let the drip rate stay above usage rate not wide open. With that said my method does not require the more expensive digital solenoid. And the shorter more frequent cycles Helps with the longevity of the less expensive solenoids.

In bold: does opening and closing the solenoid help extend the life? I could see how the frequent action could keep rust or deposits from forming, but at the same time, some may argue that more frequent action may wear down the parts.

 

[fidofence]

I prefer the tuning method and the controller for safety rather than who cares what the bubble count or size is because my controller will shut it off, stability is the key so fluctuations are not good for sps, I dump of gas from bad solenoid and your corals are history so I will pay the extra for equipment and feel good about doing it

 

[acroholic]

This AP.com soloid, peristaltic pump, etc is a new thing for me, and part of the tuning thing. I like trying new things, and this is a new reactor approach for me. Previously, I used the controller method.

 

[grouper therapy]

Ripped Tide;818746 wrote: In bold: does opening and closing the solenoid help extend the life? I could see how the frequent action could keep rust or deposits from forming, but at the same time, some may argue that more frequent action may wear down the parts.

I'm sure their is a balance to both but a coil activated solenoid usually will burn out due to excessive heat verses actually cycling.

 

[acroholic]

One thing nice is that the AP.com regulator has a no questions asked three year warranty. Break it and they send you a new one.

 

[grouper therapy]

Fidofence;818752 wrote: I prefer the tuning method and the controller for safety rather than who cares what the bubble count or size is because my controller will shut it off, stability is the key so fluctuations are not good for sps, I dump of gas from bad solenoid and your corals are history so I will pay the extra for equipment and feel good about doing it

That was not the point. The bubble size and count is not near as important when you are using a controller so I see know reason to spend twice as much for the device to control the bubble count and size. Now if you think that paying more equates to dependability then I disagree but I understand your point. It is extremely ,highly unlikely that a solenoid can/will fail in open position and dump Co2 since it is a nc valve. Case and point that higher prices do not dictate dependability everytime. I'll take a Timex any day vs a Rolex

Edit:

Acroholic;818768 wrote: One thing nice is that the AP.com regulator has a no questions asked three year warranty. Break it and they send you a new one.

Now that is a legitimate reason to buy it. I think it is only $50 bucks after that ?:thumbs: