Pesky Sponge Question

[theplantman]

OK, I have a sponge question, but to start, I cannot get a pic of this stuff as it hangs in low light areas.

The sponge is white and cotton like and spreads quick, reminds me of a praying mantis egg case before it hardens and every once in a while it puts out a siphon similiar to a tunicate. 2 months ago it was the size of a nickel, now it is the size of a golfball (but not so round) Also does not seem to be bothered by zoa toxins because it covered a small colony of eagle eyes and is moving in on the protopaly's now.

What is the best way to get rid of this stuff without harming all the tunicates and other goodies growing in the tank. I also just noticed a small mass on the underside of my alveopora where the skeleton stays shaded.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[ichthyoid]

theplantman;417780 wrote: OK, I have a sponge question, but to start, I cannot get a pic of this stuff as it hangs in low light areas.

The sponge is white and cotton like and spreads quick, reminds me of a praying mantis egg case before it hardens and every once in a while it puts out a siphon similiar to a tunicate. 2 months ago it was the size of a nickel, now it is the size of a golfball (but not so round) Also does not seem to be bothered by zoa toxins because it covered a small colony of eagle eyes and is moving in on the protopaly's now.

What is the best way to get rid of this stuff without harming all the tunicates and other goodies growing in the tank. I also just noticed a small mass on the underside of my alveopora where the skeleton stays shaded.

Thanks in advance for the help.

If it's a sponge, they usually cannot handle getting air within their vesicles. That usually kills them. Since this will be the least harmful, I would use a small diameter tube and blow air into the siphons. It could be a tunicate, also.

 

[theplantman]

Looks similiar to this but no tendrils, upon closer inspection a better description would be like hundreds of funnel spider webs joined together.

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[ichthyoid]

theplantman;417782 wrote: Looks similiar to this but no tendrils, upon closer inspection a better description would be like hundreds of funnel spider webs joined together.

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Maybe like the one about one page down on this link?

 

[ichthyoid]

What does the texture of this thing feel like. Is it soft (spongy), or hard, like coral. If soft, my bet is sponge or tunicate. If hard, possibly a bryozoan?

 

[theplantman]

ichthyoid;417781 wrote: If it's a sponge, they usually cannot handle getting air within their vesicles. That usually kills them. Since this will be the least harmful, I would use a small diameter tube and blow air into the siphons. It could be a tunicate, also.

I have about six different colonies of tunicates in the tank of various colors and this mass looks nothing like them. Tunicates are very structured with two siphons per bulb. This sponge is more globular and fre form. I like the air injection idea, but do i run into problems with poisoning the tank when this thing dies?

 

[theplantman]

ichthyoid;417797 wrote: What does the texture of this thing feel like. Is it soft (spongy), or hard, like coral. If soft, my bet is sponge or tunicate. If hard, possibly a bryozoan?

Soft and Spongy and fairly thin, the mass feels about an eighth of an inch thick before i hit rock.

 

[ichthyoid]

I'm thinking an encrusting sponge. As for toxic, what size tank? Do you/can you, run carbon, just in case? No sense taking a chance.

 

[theplantman]

34 gallon Solana, I have a phosphate reactor that I can run carbon in, but I do not like to run for very long, my Zoas tend to shrink up and dissolve when i run it for any longer than 2 weeks.

 

[theplantman]

Oh, and thanks for the advice ichthyoid, I appreciate it.

 

[ichthyoid]

theplantman;417830 wrote: 34 gallon Solana, I have a phosphate reactor that I can run carbon in, but I do not like to run for very long, my Zoas tend to shrink up and dissolve when i run it for any longer than 2 weeks.

Interesting. I usually run carbon for 1 week, then toss it, if/when needed. That sould be plenty if this thing died, I would think. There have been some pretty potent compounds isolated from sponges, like antibiotic types, anti-fouling, arsenic, etc. This thing is still small.

 

[theplantman]

I'll give it a shot, its time too change out my GFO anyway, Ill add a bag of my carbon and start injecting air. We shall see.

Thanks again.

 

[ichthyoid]

theplantman;417799 wrote: I have about six different colonies of tunicates in the tank of various colors and this mass looks nothing like them. Tunicates are very structured with two siphons per bulb. This sponge is more globular and fre form. I like the air injection idea, but do i run into problems with poisoning the tank when this thing dies?

I love tunicates. I think they are very cool. There are some that have very funky features too. Very ancient life forms. I saw one on The Food Network collected off the coast of Chile, I believe. Andrew Zimmern ate some bar-b-que'd. This thing was MASSIVE. It looked like it could have been 5-6 feet, whole. It appeared as though it likely was a colony. They cut slices off of the rocks using a machete. He said it was digusting to eat (of course-lol).

Good luck with gettin' this lil bugger out of your reef. You're welcome, hope I was of some assistance.

 

[mojo]

Also interesting to note that humans are more closely related to tunicates than any other creature in the ocean. Classifications are typically done based on the embryonic development, and tunicates possess a notochord that's very similar to humans' during the first stages of development. They're in the same Phylum as humans. Or at least that what a Ann Fielding, a marine biologist from the Waikiki aquarium, told me...

From the aptly-named http://www.tunicates.com/">tunicates.com</a>:

"<span style="font-family: verdana,"><span style="font-size: 1-1px">It is as juveniles, however, that ascidians reveal their kinship to humans. One day after an egg is fertilized, it develops into a small tadpole comprised of only about 2,500 cells. The tadpole soon finds a home, settles down, and metamorphoses into its immobile adult form -- but while still in its swimming stage the tadpole has a stiffened rod running the length of its tail called a notochord, the forerunner of our backbone, as well as a primitive nervous system."

And lastly, some cool clear tunicates I saw in Indonesia:
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/ckhorne/1342523777/sizes/o/in/set-72157601613815795/">[IMG]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1179/1342523777_0d67b66851.jpg alt="" /></a>
</span></span>

 

[ichthyoid]

mojo;417874 wrote: Also interesting to note that humans are more closely related to tunicates than any other creature in the ocean. Classifications are typically done based on the embryonic development, and tunicates possess a notochord that's very similar to humans' during the first stages of development. They're in the same Phylum as humans. Or at least that what a Ann Fielding, a marine biologist from the Waikiki aquarium, told me...

From the aptly-named http://www.tunicates.com/">tunicates.com</a>:

"<span style="font-family: verdana,"><span style="font-size: 1-1px">It is as juveniles, however, that ascidians reveal their kinship to humans. One day after an egg is fertilized, it develops into a small tadpole comprised of only about 2,500 cells. The tadpole soon finds a home, settles down, and metamorphoses into its immobile adult form -- but while still in its swimming stage the tadpole has a stiffened rod running the length of its tail called a notochord, the forerunner of our backbone, as well as a primitive nervous system."</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 1-1px"><span style="font-family: verdana,">And lastly, some cool clear tunicates I saw in Indonesia:</span></span>
<span style="font-size: 1-1px"><span style="font-family: verdana,">[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/ckhorne/1342523777/sizes/o/in/set-72157601613815795/">[IMG]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1179/1342523777_0d67b66851.jpg alt="" /></a></span></span>

Thanks MOJO! That was a throw back to developmental biology, for me! Also, a very interesting article. You made me curoious, and I couldn't remember, so I looked it up. Thanks again. +1



Humans Tunicates
Kingdom: Animalia Kingdom: Animalia
Phyla: Chordata Phyla: Chordata
Subphylum: vertebrata Subphylum: Urochordata

 

[ichthyoid]

"Also interesting to note that humans are more closely related to tunicates than any other creature in the ocean."

I'm not sure about the above, though. Cetaceans are mammals, as we are. I believe that tunicates are technically chordates (lacking a true spine). Both whales and humans are true vertebrates. I think the whales and dolphins have the tunicates on this one.

 

[mojo]

I wondered about that as well, esp. after typing that. I swear that's what Fielding told me, but that was years ago. Maybe it was another classification that I'm confused with. :doh:

Either way, it's cool that they're as closely related as they are.

 

[ichthyoid]

They may have been referring to the post-embryonic 'free swimming' stage. It is during this stage that tunicates most resemble us. Developmental biologists often reference characteristics to these early life stages, as I recall. You have caused me to remember things a high school teacher taught us. He got very excited when describing the closeness of tunicates and lancelets (chordates also) to humans/mammals, developmentally. He made it a point to emphasize both the differences and similarities of vertbrates and chordates. It made quite an impression on me at the time. I recall it being a 'rock my world'/'light coming on' type of moment. Thanks again.