Can anyone explain to me how to control alkalinity and/or carbonate hardness? Are alkalinity and carbonate hardness the same? If PH and alkalinity go hand in hand if the ph is 8.3 should the alkalinity be satisfactory? I was told when I set up my tank to use Kent superbuffer. I recently lost 2 fish so I took a water sample to the LFS and the guy said my alkalinity was through the roof over 200. He suggested that I use Seachem reef buffer and dose double the ammount of both for about 2 weeks. My alkalinity is still through the roof way over 200. Do I need to test the alkalinity if the ph remains stable? nitrites are 0 ammonia is 0 nitrates are usually 0-10 never over 20 sometimes near 20 a day or so before my water change. I have a 20 gallon tank and I change about 3 gallons a week.Tha tank volume with ll the LR is only about 14 gallons. All of my corals and other invertebrtes are doing very well, however I am really concerned that I lost my 2 most expensive fish. The tank is 3 months old. I did not add any fish for one month. I had a domino damsel which is in quarrintine a blue damsel ocellaris clown and a dotty back. At the time of the deaths only the blue dottyback and the clown were in the tank. The clown looked like had ich so I gave him a freshwater dip about 11 am last Sunday he was resting in peace about 4 hours later. The dottyback was found Friday before that under a rock almost completely decomposed after missin for 2 days. The domino has been in QT for about 3 weeks now and is doing well ha will probably stay there as I bought a Marineland hex 5 and he seems to like it. I use LFS ro water and red ea salt. SG is stable at 1.014. Temperature remains a constant 77. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know it may be a lot to ask but I'm kinda freaking out here.
PH Alkalinity
- Thread starter lees
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Typo there SG is 1.024. Also I am treating with pimafix and melafin. The only reason that I am treating my main tank is because the domino had a parisite infection and I thought I maybe should treat the tank as well. Only thing I found that was invertebrate safe. Putting the carbon back in my filter and firing the skimmer back up unless anyone thinks otherwise. Could the parisite that got the DD have gotten the dottyback and the clown also?
You should stop using the buffer for a while. What's your calcium/Mag levels? PH is not linked to alk directley, althought they have a close relationship they are not brother and sister. Calcium and Alklinity are are brother and sister however.
Are you using tap water or RO water? When you did the fresh water dip did you check the PH of the fresh water? When you do a fresh water dip the water needs to be RO and the PH needs to match that of the tank.
It may help out if you dose some Kalkwasser instead of using the Buffer, you'll have to read up on that. Hold off on fish for a while. It's not a good idea to treat the main tank with chemicals, that can mess up your corals later on. You should run some carbon to get rid of it once your done with the treatment.
Are you using tap water or RO water? When you did the fresh water dip did you check the PH of the fresh water? When you do a fresh water dip the water needs to be RO and the PH needs to match that of the tank.
It may help out if you dose some Kalkwasser instead of using the Buffer, you'll have to read up on that. Hold off on fish for a while. It's not a good idea to treat the main tank with chemicals, that can mess up your corals later on. You should run some carbon to get rid of it once your done with the treatment.
Thanks. Yes the dips have been with RO and PH is the same. Haven't tested for calcium and magnesium. I only have soft corals. Do I need to test for these? Anything else I should be testing. I currently only test Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate and PH Alk now too.
I can't remember the link and I looked for it but I read once that fresh water dips are actually bad. When people do fresh water dips the dips should actually be in 1.009 salinity. From what I remember, when you do the fresh water dip it actualy not only kills the parasite but sucks more out of and stresses the fish more than is wanted. A dip of 1.009 deal more with putting a fish in hyposalinity than just plain RO water. I am sure the flames will come but I personally believe straight RO dips are bad and cause nothing more than undue stress which in turn causes more sickness and/or death.
Thanks guys I use red sea but I did use IO in the beginning. Any advice on the best salt to use and how long you should dip fish I have heard 3-4 minutes but looks like everything I've heard so far has been incorrect or inconsistent to say the least. Also I heard that you could dip corals and fish in a solution with a couple of drops of pimafix to kill off hitchhikers s well. Any truth to this? Looks like I need to do some more homework and try to better educated guesses.
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There is way too much confusion in this thread between ideas.. Here's my attempt.
Give us an idea of what alkalinity scale your LFS is using. If you're measuring in meq/l, you wouldn't have much water in your tank with a level of 200meq/l. If you were measuring in KH(carbonate hardness), that would also be true.
pH and alkalinty are very related and very unrelated. As terms they couldn't be more different, alkalinity does influence pH as the makeup of your alkalinity is what determines the pH of your tank.
pH a measurement of the hydrogen/hydroxide ions present in your tank. Alkalinity is a measurement of the amount of carbonates in your tank, depending on which carbonates the test kit can detect.
The main contributing ingredients to alkalinity inside our aquariums are Carbonate, Bicarbonate, and Borate. Bicarbonate has a pH value of ~7.6, carbonate has a pH value of 8.6, and borate has a pH value of ~9.2. It's the blend of these carbonates in our aquarium that determine the pH of the water.
It's helps to understand what's in a buffer before you decide to use it, also. Seachem Marine Buffer 8.3 and Kent Superbuffer dKH are the same product. They're a blend of carbonate, bicarbonate, and borate. Seachem has a line of reef buffer that does not contain borate because coral cannot use borate as a skeleton builder. The annoying thing about the first two buffers is that most of the test kits that we use do not test for borate. Seachem makes one that does. It's their Magnesium/Borate Alkalinity test.
Magnesium is important because it acts as a buffer between calcium and carbonates in the water column. It is also a skeleton builder. Because of the high concentration of Mg releative to calcium and carbonate it aids in the prevention of the percipitate calcium carbonate. Coral takes calcium and carbonates from the water to create their skeleton. They cannot use calcium carbonate.
Mg is not reactive with calcium. Mg is reactive with carbonates, but dissisociates at a high enough pH(8.0+). Because a calcium ion bounces off of a magnesium ion it reduces the occurence of a calcium ion meeting up and bonding with a carbonate ion.
You should maintain a Mg level of 1300-1400ppm, Ca between 380-450pm, and maintain dKH at 8-10dKH.
It really doesn't matter what salt you use because none of them are close to what's in the ocean, and because we dose to correct what isn't present or is lacking in the mix. I use IO because it is inexpensive, availible, and have seem many thriving tanks use the same.
Don't medicate a fish, and this includes freshwater dips, until you know what you are medicating for. You'll likely do more harm than good. I hope this helps. It's really just scratching the surface of reef chemistry, but these are the important basics of pH, carbonates, and magnesium. If you want my best guess as to what happened, I bet your domino damsel beat the snot out of your other fish.
Give us an idea of what alkalinity scale your LFS is using. If you're measuring in meq/l, you wouldn't have much water in your tank with a level of 200meq/l. If you were measuring in KH(carbonate hardness), that would also be true.
pH and alkalinty are very related and very unrelated. As terms they couldn't be more different, alkalinity does influence pH as the makeup of your alkalinity is what determines the pH of your tank.
pH a measurement of the hydrogen/hydroxide ions present in your tank. Alkalinity is a measurement of the amount of carbonates in your tank, depending on which carbonates the test kit can detect.
The main contributing ingredients to alkalinity inside our aquariums are Carbonate, Bicarbonate, and Borate. Bicarbonate has a pH value of ~7.6, carbonate has a pH value of 8.6, and borate has a pH value of ~9.2. It's the blend of these carbonates in our aquarium that determine the pH of the water.
It's helps to understand what's in a buffer before you decide to use it, also. Seachem Marine Buffer 8.3 and Kent Superbuffer dKH are the same product. They're a blend of carbonate, bicarbonate, and borate. Seachem has a line of reef buffer that does not contain borate because coral cannot use borate as a skeleton builder. The annoying thing about the first two buffers is that most of the test kits that we use do not test for borate. Seachem makes one that does. It's their Magnesium/Borate Alkalinity test.
Magnesium is important because it acts as a buffer between calcium and carbonates in the water column. It is also a skeleton builder. Because of the high concentration of Mg releative to calcium and carbonate it aids in the prevention of the percipitate calcium carbonate. Coral takes calcium and carbonates from the water to create their skeleton. They cannot use calcium carbonate.
Mg is not reactive with calcium. Mg is reactive with carbonates, but dissisociates at a high enough pH(8.0+). Because a calcium ion bounces off of a magnesium ion it reduces the occurence of a calcium ion meeting up and bonding with a carbonate ion.
You should maintain a Mg level of 1300-1400ppm, Ca between 380-450pm, and maintain dKH at 8-10dKH.
It really doesn't matter what salt you use because none of them are close to what's in the ocean, and because we dose to correct what isn't present or is lacking in the mix. I use IO because it is inexpensive, availible, and have seem many thriving tanks use the same.
Don't medicate a fish, and this includes freshwater dips, until you know what you are medicating for. You'll likely do more harm than good. I hope this helps. It's really just scratching the surface of reef chemistry, but these are the important basics of pH, carbonates, and magnesium. If you want my best guess as to what happened, I bet your domino damsel beat the snot out of your other fish.
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good info in here!!
I am using a nutrifin test kit which reads as mg/l. Is that the same as ppm? I am going to get a different test kit because this one is just too difficult to get an accurate reading. I/we (guy at LFS) believe the KH is around 250. Way off the scale. I am testing again today. Holy SH**, 400 Help. Do I change water w/o using buffer? How the heck do I get a grip on this? My domino damsel had been in QT for about 10 days before the others died. They were fine,t eating well and seemingly happy. It's like they just died. Could alk be to blame? Corals,crabs, and allother inverts doing well.
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Lee-
1. mg/l and ppm are basically the same, however temperature and pressure will change the results. We're not going to worry about that in your test vial, however.
2. I would find a new fish store to take your water sample to. I'd take one to Marine Fish if it's not too far. Check the ARC Sponser Map to find the location. You need a store that's going to be able to test your water, interpret the results and communicate them to you in way that you'll understand and learn. Don't hesitate to ask them questions. Marine Fish may or may not charge for water testing so call ahead to be sure.
3. Don't add anymore buffer until you've had your water tested by a different store. Buffer raises your KH.
4. This is probably the best advice I can give- The solution to pollution is dilution. Basically, when in doubt do a water change, and then another water change, and then etc.. Just be sure the temperature and salinity is close to what's in your tank.
1. mg/l and ppm are basically the same, however temperature and pressure will change the results. We're not going to worry about that in your test vial, however.
2. I would find a new fish store to take your water sample to. I'd take one to Marine Fish if it's not too far. Check the ARC Sponser Map to find the location. You need a store that's going to be able to test your water, interpret the results and communicate them to you in way that you'll understand and learn. Don't hesitate to ask them questions. Marine Fish may or may not charge for water testing so call ahead to be sure.
3. Don't add anymore buffer until you've had your water tested by a different store. Buffer raises your KH.
4. This is probably the best advice I can give- The solution to pollution is dilution. Basically, when in doubt do a water change, and then another water change, and then etc.. Just be sure the temperature and salinity is close to what's in your tank.
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