Well, it's definitely not a bad idea to verify the accuracy of your test kits, but i <u>can</u> believe his pH is that low. Mine was a bit lower just a week ago. So I won't be using Reef Crystals anymore, and I'll be much more diligent about routine testing.
ph problems
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i have three ph test kits one by instant ocean one by api and the other by red sea and they all read the same
Siege,
That just doesn't sound right. I've used about a hundred different batches of IO without any problems. Not saying that a bad batch isn't possible.
How long do you wait after you adjust the pH until you add the water to your tank? What's the pH of your system? Adjusting pH is almost futile in the short term. It always readjusts after all the chemical reactions play out. What is the pH of new water treated this way after 24 or 48 hours of aerating and mixing?
What are you testing with and how? How certain are you of the accuracy of your salinty measuring instrument? How long do you wait after making the RO water before you add the salt? Is your RO unit in good condition?
Buy a small box (5 or 10 gallon) of IO, mix and test the same as you always do. This should let you know if it's the salt in your current bucket. You might as well pick up a new PH test kit while you are at it and make sure the problem isn't a bad test kit. You could also try mixing with RO water from a LFS to make sure your RO unit or water supply isn't to blame.
All this buffering up and down makes me worry about how stable the pH of your system is. Adding sulphur via sulphuric acid to your system long term seems like something that should be avoided.
That just doesn't sound right. I've used about a hundred different batches of IO without any problems. Not saying that a bad batch isn't possible.
How long do you wait after you adjust the pH until you add the water to your tank? What's the pH of your system? Adjusting pH is almost futile in the short term. It always readjusts after all the chemical reactions play out. What is the pH of new water treated this way after 24 or 48 hours of aerating and mixing?
What are you testing with and how? How certain are you of the accuracy of your salinty measuring instrument? How long do you wait after making the RO water before you add the salt? Is your RO unit in good condition?
Buy a small box (5 or 10 gallon) of IO, mix and test the same as you always do. This should let you know if it's the salt in your current bucket. You might as well pick up a new PH test kit while you are at it and make sure the problem isn't a bad test kit. You could also try mixing with RO water from a LFS to make sure your RO unit or water supply isn't to blame.
All this buffering up and down makes me worry about how stable the pH of your system is. Adding sulphur via sulphuric acid to your system long term seems like something that should be avoided.
7.8 pH isn't that low and is pretty easy to get if you aren't watching. Some people who don't keep corals have pH well below 7.5. I struggle to keep mine above 7.8 pH and I have tested with three pH setups and two Salifert kits just to make sure.
After extensive testing and use by a huge number of reef keepers, IO and RC are both considered some of the better products on the market. Virtually every salt mix I have seen has problems of one sort or another. IMO, IO and RC are both considered the defacto standard in this hobby for a reason.
Given that people dose in kalk in top off which has a very high pH, a pH of 8.4 isn't that big of a deal. It might prevent a 50% water change in some conditions, but it shouldn't be problematic for normal water changes. 8.4 is even an acceptable pH for keeping sensitive live stock.
I don't fault people for trying other products and suggesting it, but I wouldn't go scare people away from using IO or RC unless you have some iron clad proof it might actually do some harm. I use RC exclusively and will put the health and growth of my livestock against pretty much anybody. I also have no reservation about recommending either IO or RC as most people I know who have successful tanks use it as well.
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i dont think that my ro di unit is at falt its brand new and my water reads at zero so i dont know what else can be causing the problem i guess it could just be that my tank is still cycling.........off topic i also did some mods to my aquapod i added two stealth fans and threw out the stock one readjusted the hydor flo so that it could adgetate the surface of the of the water and blocked out the intake so that i only get surface skimming oh yeah also added the diy auto top off sam from aqua buys helped me put together hopefully some of this will help with my problem
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no i havent been doising with anything my tank has only been set up for a week and it has been cycling so i didnt want to bother anything by adding supplements my par are
salinity 1.026
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate .4
alkalinity 175ppm
calcium 375mg/l
temp at 77.5
ph7.8
i am using ro di water i have a corallife pure flo 250 gal per day caribe sea 20lbs of sand using reef crystalsand i have about 20 lbs of live rock i got from sal(horseziggy)
salinity 1.026
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phosphate .4
alkalinity 175ppm
calcium 375mg/l
temp at 77.5
ph7.8
i am using ro di water i have a corallife pure flo 250 gal per day caribe sea 20lbs of sand using reef crystalsand i have about 20 lbs of live rock i got from sal(horseziggy)
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i accualy only had a small cycle for three days ever since then all my readings have been at zero here is the link to my tank and what my pars were at
I certainly wasn't trying to "fault" or "scare" anyone. I probably should have added a few "In My Experiences" to my responses, but I thought that I stated that fairly clearly. My fault if I didn't.
I had similar problems using the same products with my system. I had a difficult and lengthy time figuring out what was wrong: wrong salt mix for my system, inaccurate test kits and measuring instruments.
I use IO exclusively. Tried RC, didn't work for me as stated without bashing the product; and your tank IS AWESOME, Cameron!
Tried API test kits. All of them bad. Seriously. Just my luck...
And freshly mixed IO or RC or any salt shouldn't have a pH of either 7.7 or 8.6 unless the SG is off or the mix is bad. That's what I can't believe. I know Flaco's tank doesn't have a heavy bioload, and he's testing it and changing water regularly. SO the pH problems seem, to me at least, to be coming from something else other than the bioactivity of his system over time. That leaves either a problem with the mix or the testing.
Just trying to help find a solution based on my problems of the past. Not "faulting", "scaring" or "bashing".
I had similar problems using the same products with my system. I had a difficult and lengthy time figuring out what was wrong: wrong salt mix for my system, inaccurate test kits and measuring instruments.
I use IO exclusively. Tried RC, didn't work for me as stated without bashing the product; and your tank IS AWESOME, Cameron!
Tried API test kits. All of them bad. Seriously. Just my luck...
And freshly mixed IO or RC or any salt shouldn't have a pH of either 7.7 or 8.6 unless the SG is off or the mix is bad. That's what I can't believe. I know Flaco's tank doesn't have a heavy bioload, and he's testing it and changing water regularly. SO the pH problems seem, to me at least, to be coming from something else other than the bioactivity of his system over time. That leaves either a problem with the mix or the testing.
Just trying to help find a solution based on my problems of the past. Not "faulting", "scaring" or "bashing".
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Chill man 7.8 is no biggie really. Especially since you have no livestock and your tank is what a week old? Just add buffer as needed.
The pH of my system is an interesting story. TGo keep it short, I thought it was low, all the tests I was using showed it low (it really was), so I started to buffer up. After a LOT of buffer and no change in my tests, I assumed my test strips must be bad, so I went to the store and got one of those little in-tank jobs by Mardel. 24 hours after immersion, it still showed the tank low. I added a little more buffer, still no change, and finally threw my hands up the next day and got yet another</em> test kit (this one by RedSea). It showed the tank as being WAY high (over 8.6 with Alk somewhere well over 3.0). O.k., so there were a lot of screw-ups involved. It certainly started off low somehow (prior to my acquisition of an RO/DI unit, likely, when we were using other chemicals to treat the tap-water, I'd warrant), and I foolishly buffered it too high based on too few a number of type of test.
May tank water has tested by my remaining test-strips, my RedSea dye test-kit, and the staff at Marine & Tropical Fish (many thanks, Patrick! ever find that brittle star?) as being about 8.6 pH, with alk in excess of 3.2, and calcium above 400; all other tests were within nominal ranges. Water <1 hour old straight out of the RO/DI tests both by M&TF and my tests at 7.0. When tested by my RedSea kit, water initially tapped 24 hours before and salted 12 hours prior to an initial SG of 1.016 tests for pH at least 8.4, if not considerably greater. After finally adjusting SG to 1.022 (good enough for me when it's only a 10%) and 30 drops of pH Down (API brand, Sulfuric Acid), pH is apparently 8.2 on the dot by my kit, with alk somewhere around 2.1 or so. I'm debating dropping it further, as I'm in a no-light cycle, when pH should drop anyway, and it still tests at 8.4-ish at night.
My hydrometer seems to be in good condition, as i strive to keep SG between 1.022 and 1.023 and M&FT's hydrometer & refractometer reported within these ranges. I usually wait at least a few hours, if not more than 12 before I add salt. My RO unit has been installed just over a month, a brand-new Water General 6-stage RO/DI 100gpd w/ 5gal. tank, and seems to be in good working condition, with no sign of anything like excessive wear on the filter-media.
Sadly, my pH seems excessively stable at this point, whatever the initial shortness was. I too worry about the addition of the sulphur to the tank, though it seemed better than the alternative of phosphoric, hydrochloric or nitric acids, and I run a PolyFilter basically at all times, though I shut down the sump and run power-heads only for about 15 minutes when adding pH Down and of course during water-changes (when the sump being off runs closer to 30 minutes, so the PolyFilter is of course not effective during that time, but, well, the best I can do at this point is try a sample of another salt and see if the end result is better in this regard... Otherwise, It comes down to whether or not I sacrifice SG for pH, and even then, I can only sacrifice so much SG... the drop would take forever.
Everything in my tank is alive and generally healthy, but I'm sure it would be happier with the pH at 8.2 instead of 8.4 - 8.6-ish. Maybe a change of salts will help, which I will try on my next day off.
Sorry for the lengthy post... As many others on many others - from professors to other forum readers - have learned, I can be quite... verbose... garrulous... loquacious, take your pick (there are, of course... ah, cruder terms). I simply endeavor to be complete when information is requested of me; i.e., I'm a geek
Siege,
Sorry about your troubles. That is an interesting dilemma. But it sounds like you are well on the way to resolving it.
The only thing else that I can think of is to try a Salifert Alkalinity test. It is regarded by many as the most accurate kit available and concentrate on maintaining alkalinity in the optimum range. Your pH should take care of itself.
It might be a good idea to scrub out your mixing container with a strong, white vinegar solution to remove any residue that might be reacting with the
mix. I had a good bit of residue in mine, and after removing it mixing salt was much easier. I'm not sure what was going on there. Then try mixing a batch. Measure the alk of the new mix after at least 24 hrs.
I think if you can get the alk of your new water in good shape; then with small frequent water changes, your system will eventually settle into the optimum range. Good luck.
Sorry about your troubles. That is an interesting dilemma. But it sounds like you are well on the way to resolving it.
The only thing else that I can think of is to try a Salifert Alkalinity test. It is regarded by many as the most accurate kit available and concentrate on maintaining alkalinity in the optimum range. Your pH should take care of itself.
It might be a good idea to scrub out your mixing container with a strong, white vinegar solution to remove any residue that might be reacting with the
mix. I had a good bit of residue in mine, and after removing it mixing salt was much easier. I'm not sure what was going on there. Then try mixing a batch. Measure the alk of the new mix after at least 24 hrs.
I think if you can get the alk of your new water in good shape; then with small frequent water changes, your system will eventually settle into the optimum range. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice and consideration Dakota. I'm doing my best to get and keep the tank in as good a shape as possible; I'll be washing the buckets out tonight - I'd never thought of vinegar as a cleaning solution, but i'll give it a go!
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yeah it went up a little i added some buffer and it went all the way up to 8.6 and then it dropped yesterday to 8.4 now its like at 8.0 -8.1 i hope it stays around there but i also see what some one here was saying about not everything disolving in the water with reef crystals i have some white powder looking thind in the back chamber of my tank and i know its not the buffer i added cause i made sure i let everything dissolve ...........ot what should i get for a clean up crew and were can i get it at a good price around lawrenceville 12 gal aqua pod
