Please don't let this happen to your Tangs (HLLE)

jennm

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As many of you know, I have a collection of "rescue" tangs. 4, from 3 different places, all disfigured by long-term, chronic HLLE. They are "in remission" meaning the illness has been stopped, but they are permanently disfigured - scarred.

Today, another tang was brought to me, same situation. Horrible, horrible, advanced HLLE. I'm struggling with being angry that it was left to go so long, with at least being grateful that the fish was brought to me so it can live out its life in better circumstances.

I'm not writing this thread to pass judgment on his keeper, but I am hoping that this poor fish's plight can help educate, so more fish don't meet a similar fate. Judging by my collection of misfits, it is happening far too often, and this ailment is reversible if caught early on.

I am told his name is, "Houston." This brings new meaning to, "Houston, we have a problem."

He was accompanied by an A. ocellaris (common clownfish) who shows zero symptoms.

I tested the water they came in. SG was 1.023, pH was 8.2, the nitrate was so far off the chart (my test reads to 50 ppm as "dark pink" on the colour chart, this was darker than beet red - literally). Date of last water change was unknown.

I sold this fish 6/3/2008 so it has been just over 2 1/2 years. He was healthy and robust when he was purchased here. Now, his body weight is good, but he is a mess. From the previous keeper's purchase history I only see Spirulina Flakes and Formula 2 Flakes as foodstuffs bought from me.

There are a number of theories as to how this condition is caused. We can discuss them here (respectfully, please). I'd like this thread to carry out discussion about this issue and its possible causes and treatments in an effort to educate, so please let's keep it constructive.

I have read a number of ideas about how this happens. I subscribe to these ideas (and some may disagree, that's OK), and I'm open to other notions too.

Conventional literature suggest this can be caused by any or all of the following:

Poor water quality
Poor diet
Stray voltage in the aquarium

And, more recently, the presence of carbon fines in the water.

I did ask Houston's keeper about carbon use and he did specify that he did change the carbon, "regularly" but I'm not sure how often, or what brand. For what it's worth, we routinely use carbon in tanks we maintain and our own systems and have not made a similar observation, but it could also come down to the type of carbon used, etc.

Poor water quality: 2 yellow tangs I've had now for a couple of years, came from a tank that had no water change for 2 years prior to the fishes' arrival back at my shop. I didn't have an opportunity to test the water at that time, but odds are it was less than pristine.

Stray Voltage: I know this is controversial, but I've seen it more times than I can dismiss as coincidence. 2 of my rescues came from separate tanks which both had faulty heaters that were causing stray voltage in the tanks (no grounding probe). Both tanks had very good water quality (nitrate below 5 consistently), and both were fed varied diets of frozen preparations for herbivores. Carbon *was* used in both of these tanks, but since the voltage issue was corrected, none of the remaining fish in those tanks has displayed symptoms, and carbon use continues. Water quality has always been very good in these tanks, they are regularly maintained.

These are anecdotal experiences, not hard science, but I do think they are relevant.

I've attached a picture of Houston, and I plan to take photos regularly as we are starting his rehabilitation today. I don't expect him to look perfect again, but I do expect to see significant improvements in his appearance over time, and I intend to let him live out the rest of his days in clean water, eating good food with vitamins, and staying safe from being picked on because of his "disabilities". This was the best picture I could get, he's still rather unsettled from his move today.

Jenn
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my sailfin actually developed a little HLLE.....he was completely fine for over a year, i used to use the older koralia PHs....and i did have stray voltage in the tank.....which i found to be linked to all of them....so i bout 3 new revolutions from you jenn....his scares had healed up almost completely on one side...i also had a instance where the power went out on the tank last winter when it was 13 degrees out and i was out of town so the thermostat(house) was set at 66...well needless to say i came home to a 62 degree tank and some PO'd corals and fish....and the sailfins HLLE actually seemed to get a little worse for a few months after that....he gets a wide array of food(homemade:raw shrimp and scallops...blended and chunked...nori mixed in and some cyclopeeze)....basically rods food just a bit less costly).....but he is fat and healthy....yes the scaring is there.....but it seemes to be getting less noticeable the last few months...i hate that it happened but i honestly had no idea i had stray voltage for a while.....and he has always had very regular WCs and nitrates have been below 5...so i know the stray voltage is a "maybe it is, maybe it aint" cause.....but stress from the temp drop did seem to have a effect as well....so possibly just overstressing in general is a cause...and i do run carbon but i change it out one a month.....to the day
 
Here are some articles on HLLE from Wet Web Media:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs2.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs2.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/HLLEF4.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/HLLEF4.htm</a>

There is plenty of reading on that site - there are more links but clicking on any of those will show you the rest.

Early signs include facial pitting and fin erosion - almost looks like someone took a "bite" out of a fin - but unlike a mechanical injury that will heal within a week or so, fin erosion does not get any better. The lateral line organ can also look somewhat concave, but that symptom, to my eye, is more subtle. The sooner the ailment is identified, and measures taken to correct whatever underlying problem may be causing it, the more likely the fish will recover without permanent disfigurement. Once it gets as bad as our buddy Houston, the best prognosis is to halt the damage, heal what can be healed, but the fish will never win any beauty contests.

Jenn
 
Raj has a before and after pic of a sailfin that had HLLE......I say had because it seemed to make a complete recovery.....no scars or anything.......he said it was given a secret formula or something like that.....he posted a pic of it in a thread somewhere....can't remember though....
 
my yellow tang (few years) had HLLE, and after a few months of pure Selcon soaked Hikari Frozen Spirulina Brine Shrimp and Publix Green Algae Sheets soaked in pure Selcon, She completely heeled..............no scars.

I gave her to Miami who killed her.
 
I'm going to use this thread to update Houston's progress. He has only been with me 5 days, and already we are seeing improvements to him.

The first day, he hid in a corner and the second day he was more relaxed and exploring his surroundings. He doesn't yet seem to "understand" the concept of nori on a clip or wedged under a rock, nor does he really pick at nuisance algae but he is a lot more animated.

This morning I noticed that a through and through tear of his dorsal fin is healing. It was torn from the outer edge right to the spine when he arrived. As of today, it's healing from the outside, to the spine, which I thought odd... I thought it would heal from closest to the body to the extremity, but it's doing it in reverse. The top portion has healed, and there's still a small hole right near the spine. His colour is coming back, where he was all pale white on the top half of the body, he has stripes - like the skin is healing, and he doesn't have reddish lesions anymore.

Just 5 days... it's amazing how quickly fishes' tissues can heal if they are given half a chance.

He's still got a long way to go, but I'm amazed with how much better he looks already.

Here's today's picture.

Jenn
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Looks great Jenn. Do you keep them or every resell them? This is the type of fish i would like to buy
 
No, I don't sell them. Truth is, I get kind of attached to them after giving them the TLC to get them well again. I do go out of my way to let people know they aren't for sale (don't want people thinking I caused that!) I'm a sucker for the underdogs.

They are good "worker bees" for me - they help keep nuisance algae in check in my coral tanks. I have a scarred purple tang I've named, "Buzz" and he even eats bryopsis.

Jenn
 
Jenn, What have you been doing for Houston for him to look so good so quickly? I have a hippo tang that I have been trying to rehabilitate for quite some time. I've increased water changes and feeding green and red nor.

Denise
 
JennM;607844 wrote:
They are good "worker bees" for me - they help keep nuisance algae in check in my coral tanks. I have a scarred purple tang I've named, "Buzz" and he even eats bryopsis.

Jenn

I will give you my first born child for that tang..:lol2:
 
Well I'm not doing anything "special". He's been moved from a 55-g tank (!!) to one of my coral tanks (about 110 g, 5.5' long). Water is better, that's the main thing, he's being offered a variety of foods, he takes frozen preparations but doesn't seem to be interested in nori or even naturally occurring algae yet.

I think just the reduction in stress from being in dirty water, has made a difference. This ain't my first rodeo with fish in bad shape but even I'm surprised at the swift improvement. He's still got a long way to go.

Jenn
 
It's awesome that you take them in for rehab. I recently gave my Hippo up for the same thing. When I got him I didn't do any research or planning to take care of him beyond asking the shop owner if my tank was big enough. He did fine for 4 years but started developing HLLE and I couldn't seem to get in front of it. I think it was a combo of inadequate diet and small tank size. He's at Einstein's now and I thank Chris every time I'm there for doing me the favor of taking him in. It was one of the many mistakes I made early on and I still feel bad about it.
 
Unfortunately I don't but there may be some in the links I provided.

Usually it starts with facial pitting and goes from there. Sometimes the dorsal, ventral and or tail fins look like they have "bites" out of them too, but they don't heal. Rather they get worse. From there it progresses and if not corrected, they end up looking like our buddy, Houston :(

Sadly, not everyone is observant and since the changes can happen gradually, sometimes they go unnoticed altogether. I had someone bring in a yellow tang once for trade-in/store credit and when I said I couldn't offer any credit because he wasn't re-sellable, his keeper asked why... I pointed out a healthy specimen and he didn't see the (seriously obvious) difference right away. The poor thing had no dorsal or ventral fins left. How one can *not* notice that is beyond me.

Jenn
 
jmaneyapanda;642361 wrote: http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found">http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found</a>[/QUOTE]


I was going to quote the same link, as I just read this article last night. Since I began in the hobby(1996) there have been several myths as to why this occurs. Vitamin deficiency, stray voltage, poor water quality and several others. But this is the first time that I have ever heard of activated carbon being a source of HLLE. I know that I will be more diligent in rinsing/ soaking before use in the future.

Great work on rescuing the fish Jenn! Kudos
 
jmaneyapanda;642361 wrote: http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found">http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found</a>[/QUOTE]



Great find Jeremy, but now you have me scared bc I do run carbon. Fortunately it's not the lignite but the ROX's from BRS. I think I will continue to run carbon but I may scale back the recommended amount by BRS after reading this.
 
Very good info to that everyone should know about!

Thanks for posting the link to the study Jeremy!

I'm glad to know that using pelletized carbon is better than lignite, and you can bet that I'll be sure to do a more thorough rinsing of my carbon.
 
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