Plumbing and overflow boxes for newbies?

[tjherman]

Okay, I think I may be ready to start planning the plumbing for my 72 bow front. Now since the bottom is tempered, I can drill the back rather than go for a hang on overflow. And I'll apologize in advance for so many questions. :doh:

How many holes will the tank need? If I've understood what I've read, I need one for water going to the protein skimmer/sump and another to return the water into the tank. So I need at least 2? Do these holes have to be far apart or can they fit into the same overflow box? I'm still pretty unclear about what size the holes will need to be.

Rather than making an overflow box myself, I saw http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/p767/Large-Overflow-Box-For-Back-Drilled-Tanks/product_info.html">this product</a> at BRS. They also have a few other sizes, the smallest allowing for a 1" bulkhead. Would this do the trick for my tank? This would mean placing the drilled holes up higher on the tank. Is there a rule of thumb on how high up should drilled holes be? For that matter, is it better to do 2 overflows instead? If that's the case, I could just use two overflows, one on each end of the tank.

Now it seems really confusing to me about all the parts I'll need for the plumbing itself. I drew lots of pictures to figure out what needs to go where, but didn't know exact parts to make it work. :huh: Another website, wet web media, had a [IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/plumbi1.jpg>diagram of plumbing</a>. So I know I'll need a check valve and a gate valve near the pump (I've picked a Mag 7 drive). Also the bulkheads for the drilled holes. What other plumbing pieces will I need? A ton of Locline?

Any advice, suggestions, or additional websites for reading are appreciated!

 

[seedless reefer]

Youre going to get a million different opinions.

I know how I would plumb it however, the best probably would be to take a look at a plumbed tank so you understand the mechanics of it and once you understand how everything works, I would bet you would formulate your opinion on how you want it.

You folks are more than welcome to come look at how mine is plumbed and discuss/diagram what you need to do.

 

[frugalfish]

Plumbing definately has many opinions and options. Seeing how some tanks are plumbed is very helpful. Obviously ARC is very helpful in providing opinions and most are willing to have a show and tell. Also some of the LFS near you have some setups which you also can ask and look at to understand the mechanics of water movement. I know that Creation Reef does it, (since Matt set up mine):shades:. I know that Optimum also has some FOWLER tanks which helped with my initial setup ideas. I'm a little bit of drive to Cartersville, but have made some of the mistakes and would be happy to let you look under the hood, or just give my 2-cents, just PM me.

 

[tjherman]

Well, a lot of opinions gives someone new a place to start! Thank you for the offer to see your tank, Loren. I think I'll take you up on that.

FrugalFish, I will definitely check out Creation Reef maybe tomorrow while I'm out. They're not too far from me. Oh and Cartersville isn't that far out. I lived near plant Bowen for a while.

 

[grouper therapy]

I like two overflows personally. One that you can restrict the flow in to eliminate any noise and a second for emergency overflow should the first become obstructed. This is not a must but is nice to have .
I think you would need only one return line for your size tank. My opinion is that too often we try to create flow in our tanks per the return pump. The water going thru the sump needs to be slowed down to allow it to be processed. I think that a max of 5 times your display tank capacity is sufficient for a return pump.

 

[tjherman]

Today I went to check out Creation Reef's shop. Boy, it was big. Lots of product. Their display tanks were great! I'd never seen a star move before either.

The owner explained how his stock tanks are set up. The stock tanks didn't have overflow boxes at all. They just had a little strainer to skim off the water and then the return line. It wasn't really that noticeable either. According to the owner, holes shouldn't be placed too close together to reduce stress on the glass. He also suggested some different products to help seal bulkheads. I also peeked under the coral frag tanks to see what was under the hood.

grouper therapy, thank you for the advice. I was planning on getting a Mag 7 pump and adding a powerhead or two to generate water flow. How would two overflows work together? Do they combine into one line?

Oh, and I completely forgot... if you add a UV sterilizer, where should it go? (I inherited a Coralife UV sterilizer and plan to use it since I've got it.) Should it hit the water after it's gone through the sump? or before the skimmer? My guess is after it's gone through the sump on the way to the return line.

 

[grouper therapy]

A mag five is plenty but a mag 7 will do. The uv should be between the return pump and the tank as clear water allows more uv light in. Each overflow should be independant of one another all the way to the sump. Like I said you don't have to have 2 overflows but it makes it easy to quieten your overflow and reduce the risk of flooding. The noise of the water flowing down the overflow lines is too much for me but doesn't bother a lot of people. My tank is completely silent because any noise drive me crazy! ( I know DerekS that would be a short trip)

 

[seedless reefer]

My uv pump is in the same spot as my skimmer pump.

You don't want to put it anywhere that it can take in water from the fuge.

 

[tjherman]

grouper therapy, I love the idea of two overflows helping to quiet the noise. Noises bother me quite a bit depending on what they are. Loren, I took your advice and plan to place the UV sterilizer before water passes through the fuge.

I've been doodling away on scratch paper on how to make the plumbing work. Since I'm unclear how the protein skimmer hooks up, I don't know what to do with my overflow lines. However, I gave it a shot!

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In this (not quite but close to scale) drawing I'm using both smaller tanks (20 and 10 gallon) in order to have more space to grow foodish type critters and whatnot. The two tanks will fill the entire bottom of the stand with a couple inches to spare. Plus I'd rather be safe than sorry on any flooding or PH issues. Heck if I know if it'll work! It gives me an idea to work from at the least.

 

[weaglereefer]

Just keep in mind that the water level will be as high as the baffles (something not illustrated in your drawing) and you want to have room for the tank to overflow if the power goes out.

 

[tjherman]

Oh, okay, thank you! That makes sense. I'll update my drawing. I was hoping that two tanks would allow for enough room in case of a flood. The tank is going to be living in the garage as well, just in case.

 

[weaglereefer]

Most baffles are around 10" deep as that is close to the sweet spot for most skimmers. Also, if you are building this yourself, my recommendation be to put the return pump chamber in the middle with a skimmer chamber on one side and fuge on the other. You can T off the return pump for the fuge or hook up the output of the UV light into the fuge. I would also think about a media reactor of some kind for carbon or GFO what could be inline with the UV as well. Carbon really does help with water clarity and if you have anything that could potentially excrete toxins, it'd help with that as well.

 

[seedless reefer]

I would ask members how many of them run check/one way valves.

I do not.

 

[oldschool52]

I have a 72 bow that is reef ready so I did not have to drill or use an overflow box. I use a Mag7 and it works well for this size tank. I had a mag5 but am using it on a 55gal now. (got a deal on a 7 from an ARC member). Like it's been said everybody has their own opinion. I have my own opinion on UV's and only use mine when I need to. I have it set up so I can use it on any of my tanks that need it to any given time. I have 3 tanks. Whole nother topic.

I am now in the process of setting up a 55 w/overflow box. Building my sump refugium now in a 20 gal tank. (Got glass from LOWES). Have the overflow hooked up just draining into a 10g for now with the mag 5 and some tubing just to get things moving. Have a HOB filter 300GPH and Power head in tank now. About 75lbs live rock. Skimmer not hooked up yet. Still need about 5 more gallons of water (aerating now) Your drawing looks like it should work, after you get things hooked up stop the return pump to make sure how high the water goes up in the sump. I marked my sump with a "Black Sharpie Permanent Marker" so I know how much top-off water I need to put in when it evaporates. I add about 2 to 2 1/2 gallons or RO/DI water a day. (time to make auto top off LOL) You propbably know this but remember when you add top off water NO SALT. Salt does not evaporate just the water. Just in case since your new. I've known people to use salt water to top off and really screw up your salt content. Easy to fix, just drain salt water and put in RO. Just a waste of time and money.

Anyway, good luck you're on the right track.

 

[dave]

Is that a pump just to the right of your baffles? If it is...what happens if it fails?

 

[weaglereefer]

Oh, I didn't realize that was 2 separate tanks. You're going to want to use an overflow box or something to get water between the two tanks. It will be impossible to match the flow rates and one of the pumps will eventually run dry.

 

[seedless reefer]

I agree with the above post I have looked at this and can't see anything but heartache.

 

[tjherman]

About 11pm last night I did realize that a smaller pump in there wouldn't work. At all. :doh: Something would end up filling up too fast or too slow and it'd flood. So I would need to use an overflow box there instead. I'd rather use it there than on the back of the tank... Heck, I don't even know if using the two tanks is a bad idea or not.

This is the sort of thing why I want to plan it out beforehand, so please forgive me for my drawing's errors. I'm trying to read up as much as I can and don't want to make a mistake on the actual tank.

 

[smoothie]

If space is the concern look at this

 

[seedless reefer]

I can tell you from experience multiple tanks under your display is going to cause ongoing problems.

I ran 3 tanks in-line under my 125 and never could get it right.

A single sump solution is what you need with a return pump and a couple of PVC Gate valves.

My offer to help you build a sump stands.

The link that Smoothie provided is one of the best places you can go to learn about sumps.