Prophylactic treatment

NanCrab

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We got a pair of small clowns last Friday and they’ve been acclimating to QT since. Both are active and eating both frozen and pellets. Interestingly they came out of the same tank but Nemo likes the shrimp much more than Marlon, who seems to prefer the pellets. I bought what they were getting fed there so they should both be familiar with both types of food. oops, getting off topic!

My current tank numbers:
Amm - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate 4 ppm
Phos 8.4
Temp 78
Spec Gravity 1.026 refractometer

Received today from Amazon: MetroPlex, KanaPlex, Focus and ParaGuard. Also have Cupramine Copper.

No outward signs of any diseases so far. What Is the best prophylactic treatment to start now to make sure they are free from disease/parasites. How much and how long? 13 g tank, hob filter, turn on air stone pump intermittently. I purchased all this stuff on advice of members but not sure if I use all of it or some of it or what lol.

Thank you in advance.
 
if i were you, i would use copper power and Hanna copper tester for testing. i used cupramine too many times previously and have recently learned that it's harsher on the fishes across the board. copper power is gentler and i have successfully QT ~8-10 fishes in the last 3 months without issue.

i QT my fishes minimum 30 days but usually 60-90 days.
 
Ok I will try to find Copper Power, thanks. For these fish time in QT won’t be a problem. Our tank build has come to a screeching halt since my husband fell off a ladder last week and fractured his back. Gonna be 2 little clowns in a QT for now! How long should I actually medicate the fish for?
 
Ok I will try to find Copper Power, thanks. For these fish time in QT won’t be a problem. Our tank build has come to a screeching halt since my husband fell off a ladder last week and fractured his back. Gonna be 2 little clowns in a QT for now! How long should I actually medicate the fish for?
Im sorry to hear that, I hope he makes a speedy recovery.
 
Ok I will try to find Copper Power, thanks. For these fish time in QT won’t be a problem. Our tank build has come to a screeching halt since my husband fell off a ladder last week and fractured his back. Gonna be 2 little clowns in a QT for now! How long should I actually medicate the fish for?
Did the place where you picked the clowns up already treat? If so, might be wise just to watch them while in qt and not treat again. There are two schools of thought- treat in qt or observe. And accept that all tanks have ich, or believe in the fallow tank method and quarantine everything going into your tanks system. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If using cupramine, the product should have dosing instructions that you can convert to your volume in qt.
 
Did the place where you picked the clowns up already treat? If so, might be wise just to watch them while in qt and not treat again. There are two schools of thought- treat in qt or observe. And accept that all tanks have ich, or believe in the fallow tank method and quarantine everything going into your tanks system. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If using cupramine, the product should have dosing instructions that you can convert to your volume in qt.
Thank you for your reply. We didn’t do any of this stuff 30 years ago lol.
I didn’t think to ask if they had been treated. I got them from Atlanta Aquarium in Duluth.

What we really want is a beautiful, colorful coral reef. We want to have fish but only if they enhance the coral. Our objective is to try to prevent disease from getting into the tank at all if that is even possible. We have dry rock and CaribSea Arag Alive special grade sand. My husband fell in love with some shrimp at The Fish Store but we don’t know what they are called. They are active, bright red with white tentacles if I’m remembering correctly. I’ve just read so many things now that my head is kind of swimming. I really just want to do the right thing. Is that clear as mud?
 
Thank you for your reply. We didn’t do any of this stuff 30 years ago lol.
I didn’t think to ask if they had been treated. I got them from Atlanta Aquarium in Duluth.

What we really want is a beautiful, colorful coral reef. We want to have fish but only if they enhance the coral. Our objective is to try to prevent disease from getting into the tank at all if that is even possible. We have dry rock and CaribSea Arag Alive special grade sand. My husband fell in love with some shrimp at The Fish Store but we don’t know what they are called. They are active, bright red with white tentacles if I’m remembering correctly. I’ve just read so many things now that my head is kind of swimming. I really just want to do the right thing. Is that clear as mud?
Just so you know, the chances are that something you add to your reef will be contaminated with something - a pest, disease, algae.... you get the idea. The only way to prevent is strict quarantine procedures for everything. Even then, your tank might get a disease. I believe in properly sized UV and dipping and to live with ich by feeding the tank adequately and good husbandry. And sometimes things go well and you think all is good and you still might end up with an issue. That is what makes this hobby challenging, frustrating and wonderful.
 
My husband fell in love with some shrimp at The Fish Store but we don’t know what they are called. They are active, bright red with white tentacles if I’m remembering correctly. I’ve just read so many things now that my head is kind of swimming. I really just want to do the right thing. Is that clear as mud?

Sorry to state the obvious, but if the shrimp are in QT with the clowns do not treat with copper!!

My LFS claims to run copper in their fish tanks, but I still use copper in my QT anyway. I had tanks decimated by both Ick and Velvet in the distant past, and I don’t intend to have that happen again!!

Im running Seachem Cupramine with good results (by which I mean the fish don’t seem stressed and I haven’t had any issues in my DT). Seachem claims to be extremely gentle on fish, but I will look into this other product as well.

you’re probably aware of the idea that all fish inherently have Ick and it comes out when they are stressed (I liken it to psoriasis). I subscribe to this idea, so keeping fish stress to a minimum is key, IMO. High water quality, proper acclimation, etc. I also am a full believer in soaking their food in Selcon to promote general health and boost immunity.

sorry to ramble! Especially with stuff you probably already knew :D
 
How large is the quarantine tank?
13g...
you are the one who has the QT regimen. I should have gone back and looked at your post on my qt tank set up thread. I have all of these products and haven’t used one of them.
 
Sorry to state the obvious, but if the shrimp are in QT with the clowns do not treat with copper!!

My LFS claims to run copper in their fish tanks, but I still use copper in my QT anyway. I had tanks decimated by both Ick and Velvet in the distant past, and I don’t intend to have that happen again!!

Im running Seachem Cupramine with good results (by which I mean the fish don’t seem stressed and I haven’t had any issues in my DT). Seachem claims to be extremely gentle on fish, but I will look into this other product as well.

you’re probably aware of the idea that all fish inherently have Ick and it comes out when they are stressed (I liken it to psoriasis). I subscribe to this idea, so keeping fish stress to a minimum is key, IMO. High water quality, proper acclimation, etc. I also am a full believer in soaking their food in Selcon to promote general health and boost immunity.

sorry to ramble! Especially with stuff you probably already knew :D
I only have the clowns right now. I bought the cupramine because someone suggested it but since then I’ve heard it’s too harsh and to use only a fraction of what is recommended on the bottle. I bought the metroplex to soak the food in as that has also been suggested, Paraguard for worms. I want disease free fish/corals and DT to the best of my ability. I’m just very confused as to when to use these products? Do you treat with one thing at a time? Or can you treat with a combination of things? Is it pellets that you are soaking? Can I mix ParaGuard, Metro and focus in a medicine cup together and soak the food in the mixture and still treat the tank with copper?
These are the questions swirling around in my head
 
Dang! I've been bugging the crap out of you guys with my, sometimes redundant, questions. Just looked up the Seachem website and every bit of info I was looking for is right there! Sorry! But I do appreciate your willingness to answer!
 
Dang! I've been bugging the crap out of you guys with my, sometimes redundant, questions. Just looked up the Seachem website and every bit of info I was looking for is right there! Sorry! But I do appreciate your willingness to answer!
Don't be sorry. We are here for you. This is what ARC is about. Keep bugging us. We like to feel important and smart. Lol
 
13g...
you are the one who has the QT regimen. I should have gone back and looked at your post on my qt tank set up thread. I have all of these products and haven’t used one of them.

+1 to Zap. We all have answered (and I’ve certainly asked) the same questions that have been on this forum since the beginning. It’s really nice to get a personalized response rather than get some snotty reply of “use the search function and sift through the garbage”. This is a really great group of folks.

I run a 10G so pretty close. I just got done with the accelerated QT - a Copperband Butterfly from The Fish Store. I only went to 1.75ppm on the copper for 6 days, then over to a bucket, and back into the cleaned QT with prazi for one day. He’s in the DT and has eaten every single aiptasia in the tank that I could find, with the lone exception of the one that’s the size of quarter. He’s swimming into the xenia colony still looking for more... crazy!

Day 1, I floated the bag in the QT tank. Salinity was just about the same (1.025 in the bag, 1.024 in the tank) so I just dropped him right in. It was pre-dosed with a capful of BioSpira, one scoop of Metro, and just over 1ppm of Copper Power, which is about 5mL for my 9 gallons of water. He never hid in the PVC, just kind of looked around. After about an hour, I fed him a couple tiny bits of frozen scallops, and he ate right away.

Day 2, raised copper to ~1.5ppm, dosing 0.5mL at a time in 4 doses. This is now technically therapeutic, but the experts on R2R recommend running up to 2ppm to be on the “safe” side. Use the Hanna Copper checker to verify. Continued feeding him sporadically, mixed it up with different offerings and he took just about all of it.

Day 3, raised copper to 1.75ppm (actually 1.82 on the Hanna). This is where I left it for the next 4 days. I also dosed a capful of Prime to neutralize Ammonia. Dosed one more scoop of Metro, and one more on Day 5.

Day 4-7: fed, dosed one capful of Prime on Day 6. Ammonia badge never signaled, so I assume all was good in the hood.

At the end of Day 7, I net transferred him into a half-full bucket (~2 gallons) of newly mixed saltwater with an airstone. I emptied the QT and cleaned it all with vinegar solution, rinsed well, and refilled with 5 gallons of fresh saltwater. Did a water change on my DT (my standard WC is 4 gallons), and dumped the “dirty” water into the QT with the fresh saltwater. Net transferred him back to the QT and dosed Prazi.

Day 8, net transfer into the DT. He wasn’t even shy, just swam right up to the other fish like “sup my dudes” and started eating aiptasia within a couple hours. I lucked out with an insane result, definitely not typical.

However, I’m likely going to continue running at ~1.75ppm in the future unless I see fish with disease in adjacent tanks at the LFS.


Now, for your specific case, a few ideas if it were me doing this all over:

1. Rit @ AA told me he runs Prazi in his fish tanks. You may want to just give them a freshwater dip and see if anything comes out. It looks like little dandruff... flukes. Flakes. If nothing they’re probably fine on the deworming. I don’t think it hurts to run Prazi at the end again... but they probably don’t need it unless you see stringy poop or the freshwater dip results in some falling out of the fish. Prazi did suppress some fishes appetites in my limited experience, so take care on that step.

2. Ocellaris clowns are pretty dang hardy, I’m sure you remember. Mine had zero ill effects that I could tell from running Copper Power up to 2.1ppm. They still ate fine, swam around like little nuts, and are thriving in the DT now.

I have less concern that clowns are “carriers” but being that you want to be on the safe side, I’d say run the copper and metro and get em cleanly introduced into the DT after 30 days in copper, and 14+ in untreated saltwater. That will also ensure your DT is fallow for a good period, likely eliminating any nasty critters in case you introduce any liverock from a LFS or another member.

3. If you’re cycling your DT simultaneously, do not follow what I did with the water change (not yet, anyway). I’m fairly confident my tank is ich/velvet free from my fallow period, so I’m willing to take the risk of using that water in my QT.


Good luck!
 
+1 to Zap. We all have answered (and I’ve certainly asked) the same questions that have been on this forum since the beginning. It’s really nice to get a personalized response rather than get some snotty reply of “use the search function and sift through the garbage”. This is a really great group of folks.

I run a 10G so pretty close. I just got done with the accelerated QT - a Copperband Butterfly from The Fish Store. I only went to 1.75ppm on the copper for 6 days, then over to a bucket, and back into the cleaned QT with prazi for one day. He’s in the DT and has eaten every single aiptasia in the tank that I could find, with the lone exception of the one that’s the size of quarter. He’s swimming into the xenia colony still looking for more... crazy!

Day 1, I floated the bag in the QT tank. Salinity was just about the same (1.025 in the bag, 1.024 in the tank) so I just dropped him right in. It was pre-dosed with a capful of BioSpira, one scoop of Metro, and just over 1ppm of Copper Power, which is about 5mL for my 9 gallons of water. He never hid in the PVC, just kind of looked around. After about an hour, I fed him a couple tiny bits of frozen scallops, and he ate right away.

Day 2, raised copper to ~1.5ppm, dosing 0.5mL at a time in 4 doses. This is now technically therapeutic, but the experts on R2R recommend running up to 2ppm to be on the “safe” side. Use the Hanna Copper checker to verify. Continued feeding him sporadically, mixed it up with different offerings and he took just about all of it.

Day 3, raised copper to 1.75ppm (actually 1.82 on the Hanna). This is where I left it for the next 4 days. I also dosed a capful of Prime to neutralize Ammonia. Dosed one more scoop of Metro, and one more on Day 5.

Day 4-7: fed, dosed one capful of Prime on Day 6. Ammonia badge never signaled, so I assume all was good in the hood.

At the end of Day 7, I net transferred him into a half-full bucket (~2 gallons) of newly mixed saltwater with an airstone. I emptied the QT and cleaned it all with vinegar solution, rinsed well, and refilled with 5 gallons of fresh saltwater. Did a water change on my DT (my standard WC is 4 gallons), and dumped the “dirty” water into the QT with the fresh saltwater. Net transferred him back to the QT and dosed Prazi.

Day 8, net transfer into the DT. He wasn’t even shy, just swam right up to the other fish like “sup my dudes” and started eating aiptasia within a couple hours. I lucked out with an insane result, definitely not typical.

However, I’m likely going to continue running at ~1.75ppm in the future unless I see fish with disease in adjacent tanks at the LFS.


Now, for your specific case, a few ideas if it were me doing this all over:

1. Rit @ AA told me he runs Prazi in his fish tanks. You may want to just give them a freshwater dip and see if anything comes out. It looks like little dandruff... flukes. Flakes. If nothing they’re probably fine on the deworming. I don’t think it hurts to run Prazi at the end again... but they probably don’t need it unless you see stringy poop or the freshwater dip results in some falling out of the fish. Prazi did suppress some fishes appetites in my limited experience, so take care on that step.

2. Ocellaris clowns are pretty dang hardy, I’m sure you remember. Mine had zero ill effects that I could tell from running Copper Power up to 2.1ppm. They still ate fine, swam around like little nuts, and are thriving in the DT now.

I have less concern that clowns are “carriers” but being that you want to be on the safe side, I’d say run the copper and metro and get em cleanly introduced into the DT after 30 days in copper, and 14+ in untreated saltwater. That will also ensure your DT is fallow for a good period, likely eliminating any nasty critters in case you introduce any liverock from a LFS or another member.

3. If you’re cycling your DT simultaneously, do not follow what I did with the water change (not yet, anyway). I’m fairly confident my tank is ich/velvet free from my fallow period, so I’m willing to take the risk of using that water in my QT.


Good luck!
THANK YOU so much for your kindness and thoughtful reply. We haven’t even plumbed our display tank so have all the time in the world to treat and observe these guys. I’d love nothing more than to get my DT up and running and go to the ARC meeting and get some pretty coral (I’m oohing and aching over the pics in that thread) but I just don’t want to take any chances. Your story and @sharis100 story make me really want to be cautious about making additions
 
Wow @bzb - what an amazingly thorough process and rundown. Thank you!!

--Ron

You’re welcome, but it’s not really my process. It’s a modified version of a modified version from R2R ;)

If you end up trying it, let us know results. So far, I’m very pleased with my survival rate and it seems to be effective. We’ll see...
 
Well, as these things go....

I had a diamond goby in quarantine for a few weeks. He was doing well, so I started dosing with Cupramine. I applied the first dose and throngs went well. When I added the follow-up dose 48 hours later... well, I was back to get another goby today : (((((

so, +1 for the vote of “Cupramine is too harsh”
 
So sorry @RonS - not a fan of losing fish, especially if I can't eat em.

It appears pretty widely accepted that chelated copper (which Copper Power has) is better for sensitive fish than ionic copper. Chloroquine Phosphate seems to have a large fan base, too. I don't know that I'll ever have a fish that can't take Copper Power and I have to rely on CP, but this chart seems pretty handy on R2R:

 
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