Protein Skimmer TOO big?

[ff337]

I have a 120 gallon Mixed reef, about to rebuild the tank to SPS, LPS, clams and cool others.
-50 gallon sump with Reef Octopus Skimmer NWB110 currently

I am in the market for a new skimmer. I am pretty sure I have tapped my current skimmer out a long while ago. My current skimmer seems to be perfect for a 55-75 gallon mixed tank.


People say order the biggest you can afford...The price looks pretty swell on he Reef Octopus 3000 SR0-3000INT

Is this too big? Or not big enough? I want to buy one skimmer. I might upgrade in the next couple years to a larger tank. I don't want to have to buy another one later on.

 

[dawgface]

No that'll work just fine.

 

[ff337]

Oh Im running a BRS dual reactor with GFO and Carbon currently. I might run them as 2 separate reactors though.

 

[seth the wine guy]

I have 120g DT with a 120g sump. I have the SRO3000 int. Very happy thus far. It would be a fine choice IMO.

 

[patrick]

FF337;711130 wrote:

Is this too big? Or not big enough? I don't want to have to buy another one later on.

TWSS.

You can always dial it back. Depending on the inhabitants you keep, and the flow you get thru the skimmer in relation to your total tank volume........they can actually be too big.....or efficient really. If you have a large LPS and softie population, the skimmer can actually pull so well that they get less nutrition than is ideal. The real question though is how often does that really happen? Very rarely unless you get something like a Bubble King or the Reef Flow Orca type skimmers and most of the water volume passes thru it in a relatively short period of time. If you feel that is happening, then you can just put the skimmer on a timer and feed when it is off.

 

[grouper therapy]

Patrick;711478 wrote: TWSS.

You can always dial it back. Depending on the inhabitants you keep, and the flow you get thru the skimmer in relation to your total tank volume........they can actually be too big.....or efficient really. If you have a large LPS and softie population, the skimmer can actually pull so well that they get less nutrition than is ideal. The real question though is how often does that really happen? Very rarely unless you get something like a Bubble King or the Reef Flow Orca type skimmers and most of the water volume passes thru it in a relatively short period of time. If you feel that is happening, then you can just put the skimmer on a timer and feed when it is off.

What is too much removal, how is that determined and how is the skimmer's performance measured in relation to that amount?

 

[jead85]

I am running about 150 gallons system volume on a sro xp2000. And wow I am in love with this skimmer. Only wish I can afford the xp2000 external

 

[ichthyoid]

Part of the purpose of a skimmer is to allow for gas exchange/oxygenation. I also carbon dose, so that factors in as well. I personally like to oversize the skimmer on my systems.

Here is an idea of what I mean. This is going on a 120 main display with about 200 gallons total volume. It's rated for 650. If you are ever concerned that you are pulling out too much 'stuff' just reduce the feed to the skimmer. As you mentioned, going bigger now also allows upgrading the tank later on. In the end, an undersized skimmer will leave you wishing for more. Hope this helps.
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[ff337]

Did you name that rascal?

 

[ichthyoid]

I thought about petitioning NASA for consideration as a planetoid, whereby it would be named.

or, Maybe we should have a 'name that skimmer' contest.

Here is what it looks like fully assembled-
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[crewdawg1981]

I'll defer to the more learned reefers on here, but I know ~mojo over on RC has said you CAN go too big. By that he means that there will not be enough DOCs in the water for the protein skimmer to run efficiently/maintain foam head.

 

[grouper therapy]

Crewdawg1981;711592 wrote: I'll defer to the more learned reefers on here, but I know ~mojo over on RC has said you CAN go too big. By that he means that there will not be enough DOCs in the water for the protein skimmer to run efficiently/maintain foam head.

So the level of DOCs would then start to rise and become high enough to maintain a foam head until reduced enough to not produce foam again? I'm having a hard time grasping that. . With his theory a skimmer would need to be small enough so that it never catches up to the level of organics introduced.

Now the amount of watts used to remove x amount of DOCs is a different question of efficiency

 

[crewdawg1981]

Like I said... I'll leave it to those more learned than I, but he is THE skimmer guy on RC. I prolly just butchered his theory is all.

 

[patrick]

grouper therapy;711484 wrote: What is too much removal, how is that determined and how is the skimmer's performance measured in relation to that amount?

A very effective skimmer will remove foods that you are trying to feed the corals. If the flow thru the skimmer is the tanks volume over a short period of time because the skimmer is "oversized", then some corals may not get the contact time necessary to capture said food. Whether that be food you deliberately feed or food from a refugium.......it can be rapidly removed with the right skimmer.

Now how much "oversized" would cause such an issue is something that would need to be calculated for each system and skimmer. As we all know, many skimmer manufacturers tend to over estimate the size tank their skimmer is rated for anyway as a sales point. And, it would also depend on the other flow dynamics and types of corals in the system. Bottomline, it is just something to consider.

Also, as I stated, it is less likely to get too much skimmer than the opposite.

When I ran my BK 200 on a 90 gallon for the few months leading to my upgrade, I did notice that the growth of my softies slowed. Can I absolutely attribute that to the skimmer.......well no......but it was the only change on the system in 3 years.

 

[grouper therapy]

If the flow thru the skimmer is the tanks volume over a short period of time because the skimmer is "oversized", then some corals may not get the contact time necessary to capture said food.
That doesn't mean that all the actual water in the system passed through the skimmer either.
Now how much "oversized" would cause such an issue is something that would need to be calculated for each system and skimmer.
To my knowledge no one has developed a formula for such a calculation.
The only research that I am aware of was the research that showed the most DOC that any of the skimmers would pull out was around 37% so I have a hard time believing that a skimmer can starve a system.

When I ran my BK 200 on a 90 gallon for the few months leading to my upgrade, I did notice that the growth of my softies slowed. Can I absolutely attribute that to the skimmer.......well no......but it was the only change on the system in 3 years.
While this is anecdotal evidence by your own admission, I do believe you.
If skimmers can truly over skim then why was all the methods for the removal of organics and to obtain ULN systems developed? Would not the simplest thing to do is buy/build a larger skimmer?

 

[izoid]

You may want to watch the videos of Reef Dynamics on You Tube. THis guy makes excellent skimmers and his feeling is that you go a big as possible on the skimmer. His goal is to get a skimmer to idle most of the time where it has no work to do and to only skim once DOC's are presented to the tank. An undersized will never allow the idle time as it will always be trying to catch up.

 

[ff337]

If this skimmer does indeed skim too much im going to throw a shark in the tank and feed it live chickens.

:jk:

 

[ichthyoid]

izoid;711756 wrote: You may want to watch the videos of Reef Dynamics on You Tube. THis guy makes excellent skimmers and his feeling is that you go a big as possible on the skimmer. His goal is to get a skimmer to idle most of the time where it has no work to do and to only skim once DOC's are presented to the tank. An undersized will never allow the idle time as it will always be trying to catch up.

Mike, that is exactly the conclusion I have come to after 35+ years in this hobby. I have owned many undersized skimmers.

With the 3 'monster' skimmers I now own, I doubt I will ever have to worry about enough capacity again.

Also, remember that is is very easy to 'de-tune' a skimmer by adjusting (lowering) the air being fed to it. You reach a point where the skimmate is so 'dry' that the skimmer effectively stops skimming and only aerates the water.

Bottom line: I believe that it is important to remember that these are dynamic devices, and you should be prepared to adjust them to the demands of YOUR system.

If you do not understand the fundamentals, educate yourselves. Otherwise you will continue to rely on anecdotal information, heresay, inuendo, smoke and mirrors, etc. Direct observation is still our best tool, IMHO.

FWIW-

 

[rdnelson]

ichthyoid;711804 wrote:
With the 3 'monster' skimmers I now own, I doubt I will ever have to worry about enough capacity again.

Thats what I said when I bought a Pentium with a 850 MB Hard Drive and 8 MB of RAM. "There is NO WAY I will every use that much storage or ram).

 

[ichthyoid]

rdnelson99;711832 wrote: Thats what I said when I bought a Pentium with a 850 MB Hard Drive and 8 MB of RAM. "There is NO WAY I will every use that much storage or ram).

Forgot to mention, I have another 20+ skimmers laying around for good measure.

I know, that's sick (I have a skimmer addiction) :doh:

fwiw-
I have a plan to begin donating some to schools for reefs (possibly individual students), if we ever get that program off the ground.