Reef Journal - First Build Ever!
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Does that mean I should add mine over here? 
A few things.
1. The isntructions for the Red Sea Mg say you have to remove the dropper top on the reagent to fill the syringe. They put it in there to keep it from spilling in shipping. That will make your life easier.
2. This is the interesting thing. Take your Seachem Ca and Mg and add them together and what do you get? 1175ppm. That's almost exactly what Red Sea read on magnesium.
A magnesium test kit will test calcium, strontium, and magnesium as positives. I wonder if the Red Sea test kit isn't precipitating out the calcium as it should. More testing is in order. We ignore Sr because it's NSW level is 8ppm, which is negligable on the huge magnesium scale.
3. API is in most respects decent enough for regular testing. Seachem is more accurate, though significantly more complicated and expensive. Being that API provides a lot of decent testing for a low price, I think it makes a great test for someone just getting into the hobby. It's great for getting it into the hands of someone that wouldn't shell out $30 for the more accurate test.
4. Regarding alkalinity- It's pretty hard to mess up building an alkalinity test. They all work in the same fashion, and that is determining how many drops of acid z it takes to get Sample x to pH y(typically pH 4 or 5). Again, for the price it makes a handy tool to double check your other kits. Seachem has the extra step to determine how much of your alkalinity is made up of borate, which while great at maintaining pH, does nothing for coral skeletal growth.
5. Part of the reason Seachem makes their tests more complicated is to force the user to take the time to do it correctly. Certain reactions have to occur and they only do it within a certain window of time for the test to be accurate. Seachem makes it difficult for the user to rush through the test, and by using volumes instead of drops counted assures that uniform drop size(in most cases) is not essential as it is with API.
Vox;345336 wrote:
(7) Magnesium
- Red Sea - 1200 (Jenn) - This was a titration test so no blind evaluation.
- SeaChem - 875 (Jenn) -
To make matters worse for the Red Sea kit was that it was almost impossible to fill the syringe as the chemical bottle to draw from had a dropper top.
(8) Calcium
- Sera - 300 (Jenn) - This was a titration test so there was no blind evaluation.
- SeaChem - 300 (Jenn) - This was a titration test so there was no blind evaluation.
A few things.
1. The isntructions for the Red Sea Mg say you have to remove the dropper top on the reagent to fill the syringe. They put it in there to keep it from spilling in shipping. That will make your life easier.
2. This is the interesting thing. Take your Seachem Ca and Mg and add them together and what do you get? 1175ppm. That's almost exactly what Red Sea read on magnesium.
A magnesium test kit will test calcium, strontium, and magnesium as positives. I wonder if the Red Sea test kit isn't precipitating out the calcium as it should. More testing is in order. We ignore Sr because it's NSW level is 8ppm, which is negligable on the huge magnesium scale.
3. API is in most respects decent enough for regular testing. Seachem is more accurate, though significantly more complicated and expensive. Being that API provides a lot of decent testing for a low price, I think it makes a great test for someone just getting into the hobby. It's great for getting it into the hands of someone that wouldn't shell out $30 for the more accurate test.
4. Regarding alkalinity- It's pretty hard to mess up building an alkalinity test. They all work in the same fashion, and that is determining how many drops of acid z it takes to get Sample x to pH y(typically pH 4 or 5). Again, for the price it makes a handy tool to double check your other kits. Seachem has the extra step to determine how much of your alkalinity is made up of borate, which while great at maintaining pH, does nothing for coral skeletal growth.
5. Part of the reason Seachem makes their tests more complicated is to force the user to take the time to do it correctly. Certain reactions have to occur and they only do it within a certain window of time for the test to be accurate. Seachem makes it difficult for the user to rush through the test, and by using volumes instead of drops counted assures that uniform drop size(in most cases) is not essential as it is with API.
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More than 2 hours with no oxygen will cause the formation of anerobic bacteria. You probably had some nitrifying bacteria on your rock left, but it's really impossible to say how mcuh or how little.
Ammonia = 0!
We are making progress, my Ammonia has dropped to 0 using both SeaChem and API tests. :yessign:
Here's yesterday's numbers:
And today's:
(1) Specific Density
- my Hydrometer - 1.023
(2) pH
- API - 8.3
- Jungle Quick Dip - 8.2
- SeaChem - 8.1
(3) Ammonia
- API - 0.0 (Bill)
- Jungle Quick Dip - n/a, the Quick Dip does not measure Ammonia
- SeaChem - 0.0 (Bill)
(4) Nitrite
- API - 1.0
- Jungle Quick Dip - 2.0
- SeaChem - 7.5
(5) Nitrate
- API - 15
- Jungle Quick Dip - 20
- SeaChem - 8.5
(6) Alkalinity
- API - n/a, API does not test Alkalinity in my set
- Jungle Quick Dip - n/a, again got a funky blue color on the test strip that had no assigned color to grade against.
- SeaChem - 5.5
Big milestone today hitting ZERO Ammonia. Now to get those Nitrites down next.
I was way low on Calcium and Magnesium so I am adding that to my tank a teaspoon per day. I also am trying to get my Alkalinity up to 8.3 so added some more KH buffer.
My big aggravation right now is my water temperature. :sick: It bounces around too much and I keep fiddling with the thermostat, lights, skimmer, fans and can't seem to dial it in. My temperature bounces around between 78 degrees (where I have my thermostat set) and 81.2 degrees when the skimmer is on. I also picked up a Marina Aquarium floating thermometer and and it has verified that my Coralife Digital is reading accurately.
Will I cook my fish and coral at 81.2 degrees? Maybe if I only run the protein skimmer when the tank lights are off. I really don't want to buy a chiller but I'm afraid that my tank may run too hot without one.
Any thoughts or ideas?
We are making progress, my Ammonia has dropped to 0 using both SeaChem and API tests. :yessign:
Here's yesterday's numbers:
And today's:
(1) Specific Density
- my Hydrometer - 1.023
(2) pH
- API - 8.3
- Jungle Quick Dip - 8.2
- SeaChem - 8.1
(3) Ammonia
- API - 0.0 (Bill)
- Jungle Quick Dip - n/a, the Quick Dip does not measure Ammonia
- SeaChem - 0.0 (Bill)
(4) Nitrite
- API - 1.0
- Jungle Quick Dip - 2.0
- SeaChem - 7.5
(5) Nitrate
- API - 15
- Jungle Quick Dip - 20
- SeaChem - 8.5
(6) Alkalinity
- API - n/a, API does not test Alkalinity in my set
- Jungle Quick Dip - n/a, again got a funky blue color on the test strip that had no assigned color to grade against.
- SeaChem - 5.5
Big milestone today hitting ZERO Ammonia. Now to get those Nitrites down next.
I was way low on Calcium and Magnesium so I am adding that to my tank a teaspoon per day. I also am trying to get my Alkalinity up to 8.3 so added some more KH buffer.
My big aggravation right now is my water temperature. :sick: It bounces around too much and I keep fiddling with the thermostat, lights, skimmer, fans and can't seem to dial it in. My temperature bounces around between 78 degrees (where I have my thermostat set) and 81.2 degrees when the skimmer is on. I also picked up a Marina Aquarium floating thermometer and and it has verified that my Coralife Digital is reading accurately.
Will I cook my fish and coral at 81.2 degrees? Maybe if I only run the protein skimmer when the tank lights are off. I really don't want to buy a chiller but I'm afraid that my tank may run too hot without one.
Any thoughts or ideas?
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I have a strong opinion of Biospira and I just wrote up half a thread on the major bacterial products inside of this one, so I'll spare this thread it and finish it up and create a whole new one. Keep an eye out for it tomorrow evening...
Never get a huge fish geek started on bacteria. I made that mistake once and became one.
Never get a huge fish geek started on bacteria. I made that mistake once and became one.
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81.2 is fine for fish. It's starting to get a little high for coral, but most will do fine as long as it doesn't swing around a lot.
That would have made all the difference in the world from an ease of use perspective. I did try to remove it, both by grabbing and prying the dropper with tweezers to no avail.
Makes sense. Maybe that's what happened.
I hope you like it because the horse is out of the barn for me.
I do want to grow coral. My initial goal was to keep my temperature within the 78.8 to 80.8 degree (F) band.
On a funny note, guess who rinsed his first SeaChem Ammonia disk (one of six included with the basic kit) down the drain tonight by accident? :doh:
Here's where I need to disagree with you. Seachem's basic tests are much SIMPLER than API. Have you used Seachem's Marine Basic test kit? I performed tests for Ammonia, pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate and Alk before Bill had filled a test tube for the API. Never mind invert this twice, shake that for 1 minute...
Seachem test: fill the little test tray with water samples (up to 6). pH: Add one drop of pH reagent, read the result. Nitrite: add one drop of nitrite reagent, read the chart. Nitrate: use the same nitrite test, add one little measure of Nitrate reagent, read the chart. Alk - number of drops/2 (like many tests). Phosphate: 2 drops of reagent 1, 1 drop of reagent 2 - read the result. You can literally have all those tests done in about 1 minute - except ammonia where you have to wait for the test to develop (I admit there could be a better Seachem ammonia test, but once a tank is stable, it's rarely needed).
As for your notion that Seachem is "$30 more"... well I looked at Race's site and Seachem is $10 more for the basic test. Seachem's basic includes ammonia, pH, alk, nitrite, nitrate, as well as reference solutions to verify the accuracy each. API has ammonia, pH, nitrite, nitrate - NO ALK.
The Seachem Phosphate test is sold alone, or as part of the "Reef Special" bundle which includes Phosphate, Silicate and Iodide. That bundle sells for the same price as the basic.
API has a Reef kit that tests for Nitrate (duplicates the master test), KH (Alk), Phosphate and Calcium. It sells for the same price as the API basic kit.
Seachem's calcium test kit is more expensive, there's no doubt about that. It sells as a single kit, and while it's a bit pricey, it does a LOT of tests. At my store's price it works out to about .25 per test.
Seachem's Magnesium test is also spendy but also contains tests for carbonate and borate alkalinity if you choose to monitor those, those tests (titration tests) are included.
Seachem also makes a Strontium test - I've got one but I don't think anyone has ever asked me to test Strontium.
As for the Red Sea MG test - both of us tried to remove the dropper top from that reagent bottle and neither of us could. Also the plastic syringe tip did not fit snugly on the syringe and there was no thread to screw it on, so unless somebody was holding the syringe up to the tip (and there was spillage) - that whole setup was completely and totally NOT user friendly.
IMO the Seachem tests are a good value. There's no point in spending money on a kit that isn't accurate. We've found the API to be all over the map, as well as being very difficult to interpret.
Jenn
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You can see my response in this thread- I'm trying to keep this one a little cleaner.
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Here's my bacteria article:
Nitrites headed the right way:
Here's my numbers from yesterday:
I added Oceanic Sea Salt Mix to bring up the Specific Density.
All the tests except for Specific Density were with the SeaChem and I double checked Nitrite and Nitrate with API.
(1) Specific Density - 1.024, perfect
(2) pH - 8.2, almost perfect as I'm aiming for 8.3
(3) Ammonia - 0, perfect
(4) Nitrite - 0.5 (API 0.25), dropping fast and almost gone
(5) Nitrate - 1.0 (API 2), I was surprised here, must be the bacteria from the BIO-Spira hard at work
(6) Alkalinity - 7, a little high and I'm adding Calcium to try to fix this
So, I think I'm getting close to being able to add some snails and crabs. :showoff: What would you recommend for a cleaning crew. Inexpensive yet attractive and durable are my goal.
Here's my numbers from yesterday:
I added Oceanic Sea Salt Mix to bring up the Specific Density.
All the tests except for Specific Density were with the SeaChem and I double checked Nitrite and Nitrate with API.
(1) Specific Density - 1.024, perfect
(2) pH - 8.2, almost perfect as I'm aiming for 8.3
(3) Ammonia - 0, perfect
(4) Nitrite - 0.5 (API 0.25), dropping fast and almost gone
(5) Nitrate - 1.0 (API 2), I was surprised here, must be the bacteria from the BIO-Spira hard at work
(6) Alkalinity - 7, a little high and I'm adding Calcium to try to fix this
So, I think I'm getting close to being able to add some snails and crabs. :showoff: What would you recommend for a cleaning crew. Inexpensive yet attractive and durable are my goal.
Big :thanks: to Kyle at Marine Fish for taking some time and not only showing me some beautiful fish but answering a bunch of invert and fish questions today!
Here's a few critters/fish that I think have a very nice look:
- 2 Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish
- 5 Green Chromis Damsel
- 1 Diamond Gobi
- 1 Fire Shrimp (or a Coral Banded Shrimp)
And from an internet search things that I think look nice and are all reef-safe:
- 3 Orange Spotted Nassarius Snails
- 3 Zebra Striped Turbo Snails
- 3 Bumble Bee Snails
- 3 Porcelain Crabs
- 3 Peppermint Shrimp
- 3 Blue Leg Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Red Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Hawaiian Zebra Hermit Crab
This is my first stab at livestock and I'll probably change my mind a thousand times but I had to start somewhere. :tongue:
Here's a few critters/fish that I think have a very nice look:
- 2 Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish
- 5 Green Chromis Damsel
- 1 Diamond Gobi
- 1 Fire Shrimp (or a Coral Banded Shrimp)
And from an internet search things that I think look nice and are all reef-safe:
- 3 Orange Spotted Nassarius Snails
- 3 Zebra Striped Turbo Snails
- 3 Bumble Bee Snails
- 3 Porcelain Crabs
- 3 Peppermint Shrimp
- 3 Blue Leg Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Red Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Hawaiian Zebra Hermit Crab
This is my first stab at livestock and I'll probably change my mind a thousand times but I had to start somewhere. :tongue:
gold stripe maroons are big and ridiculously mean. you will probably regret adding them after a few months. the chromis will most likely kill each other off until you have 1 or 2 left. the diamond goby will most likely starve in a tank that size, unless you just get lucky enough to get him eating prepared food--they're usually pretty picky about that. i would recommend a yellow watchman, or if you like the white w/orange spots, an orange spotted watchman. both have similar behaviors but are much easier to feed and will not outgrow the tank. if you're worried about sand sifters, the orange spotted snails will do a heck of a job with that. the fire shrimp would be a great addition, but be aware that it will most likely take a while before you start seeing him on a regular basis.
i would stay away from zebra crabs in that tank, they get big and aggressive. i would replace the zebras with about 10-15 more blue legs.
8 fish is a LOT for the size of tank, IMO.
Maroons do get large, and aggressive.
Diamond gobies are great BUT sometimes their sand sifting becomes troublesome if they decide to bury your corals.
I'd go fire shrimp not coral banded - the latter get pretty aggressive too. I had one take down a small naso tang - grabbed it by the eyeball. I broke it up but the fish later died of an infection from the wound
JMHO
Jenn
Maroons do get large, and aggressive.
Diamond gobies are great BUT sometimes their sand sifting becomes troublesome if they decide to bury your corals.
I'd go fire shrimp not coral banded - the latter get pretty aggressive too. I had one take down a small naso tang - grabbed it by the eyeball. I broke it up but the fish later died of an infection from the wound
JMHO
Jenn
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Two GMS'es should be the very last fish you add, and even then I wouldn't put them in a tank that size. As said, they are extremeley aggressive and territorial. I had a pair in a 90. The small one was about 1.5", the largest about 2.5". They are now in a 75 and they dominate the tank. No matter how large another fish is, they dominate it. They seem to have no fear what so ever of anything bigger than them.
This is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping to get.
:aww: The Maroons are indeed beautiful! But they certainly don't seem to be winning any congeniality contests. :mad2: They are off the list! I also like the Black Clowns almost as much. Are they nicer and smaller?
Off the list! I'll stick with the fire or the skunk cleaner, those sound much nicer.
Another one off the list! Sounds too fussy and I don't like the sand issues. I'll go with the sand sifting snails instead.
Ugh! Another one off the list! This is harder than it looks.
New list:
- 2 Black Clownfish
- Something pretty that will go with the Clownfish, I would like something small and colorful that schools together
- 1 Fire Shrimp
- 3 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
- 3 Orange Spotted Nassarius Snails
- 3 Zebra Striped Turbo Snails
- 3 Bumble Bee Snails
- 3 Porcelain Crabs
- 10 Blue Leg Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Red Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
Better?
:aww: The Maroons are indeed beautiful! But they certainly don't seem to be winning any congeniality contests. :mad2: They are off the list! I also like the Black Clowns almost as much. Are they nicer and smaller?
Off the list! I'll stick with the fire or the skunk cleaner, those sound much nicer.
Another one off the list! Sounds too fussy and I don't like the sand issues. I'll go with the sand sifting snails instead.
Ugh! Another one off the list! This is harder than it looks.
New list:
- 2 Black Clownfish
- Something pretty that will go with the Clownfish, I would like something small and colorful that schools together
- 1 Fire Shrimp
- 3 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
- 3 Orange Spotted Nassarius Snails
- 3 Zebra Striped Turbo Snails
- 3 Bumble Bee Snails
- 3 Porcelain Crabs
- 10 Blue Leg Reef Hermit Crabs
- 3 Red Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
Better?
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Danny I just read something in my one of my reef books that I thought was interesting on the subject of temperatures that are right for coral.
Some corals can survive from temperatures of 68F to 90F, and are found in areas where the temperatures reach the extremes or are predominantly shifted to either the colder or the hotter parts of their range. Animals living in such marginal environment are not thriving, they are just living.
Most reefs have temperatures that range between 78F and 86F. The average temperature of 1,000 reefs through out the world is about 82F. Virtually all reefs do Best in this range, and I consider the temperature range of 81F to 84F as the optimal and normal</em> temperature to maintain all reef animals.
Chris
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The key to temperature is not to chase a particular number but rather aim for consistency. A consistent 84 degrees will always be better than an average of 82 degrees if the 82 swings 4 degrees each way during the day from 78-86. Consistency is the key. Doesn't mean keep it a consistent 90 or 70 either.
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