Reef tank tempature...

y-not

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My wife and I have been beating our heads together and reading, reading and reading some more.

It seems that reef tank temps are a little like belly buttons.
No two are alike and some are filled with useless garbage.

Being somewhat new to saltwater, I'm still filtering out good info from BS/junk.

My tank, Red Sea Max 250 w/o a chiller, in a room with an ambient temp of 76 degrees is running between 79 and 82.4 degrees.

All of my parameters are absolutely perfect.
The only real fluctuation is the water temp.

I can turn off the T5s and/or the skimmer and the temp will drop to about 80 but...why have a skimmer if your not going to have it turned on. Plus as you know, skimming is somewhat important.

As is the lighting.

So turning off the lights and skimmer is not very realistic.

Thus the question, what are y'all running your tank temps at?

BTW, as an FYI, I'm about 30 minutes north of Atlanta. This will be my first summer with the RSM tank and I'm not looking forward to seeing what the summer brings to my tank.
 
My chiller comes on at 82* and lights off at 82.5. Some people have been successful at 85+
 
You'll be safe at 82 but that doesn't give you much room for error in case something happens and your temp rises some more. I have my chiller kick in at 78 and heater at 77.5. Now that its summer and temps have risen, my tank stays between 77.8 and 78.1. I've had the Red Sea max 250 before and it's a boiling pot during the summer time without a chiller. I recommend you invest in one, that way you can keep your temps stable. It will save you headaches down the road.
 
Hnguyen;873212 wrote: You'll be safe at 82 but that doesn't give you much room for error in case something happens and your temp rises some more. I have my chiller kick in at 78 and heater at 77.5. Now that its summer and temps have risen, my tank stays between 77.8 and 78.1. I've had the Red Sea max 250 before and it's a boiling pot during the summer time without a chiller. I recommend you invest in one, that way you can keep your temps stable. It will save you headaches down the road.

I just bought a JBJ chiller. With a little luck it'll be here before the end of the week.
While I do not need to drop the temps 20 degrees, I do hope for a stable temp.

Looking at my graphs, the temps are bouncing between 78.8 and 82.4.
IMO, that's too much of a swing in temps.

After dropping the change that we did on the RSM and all of the $$ in various corals that we've bought, it seems like the cost of a decent chiller is just a bit of insurance.
 
I run my tank at 78-79 degrees (F). Seems to be a decent balance in matching the temperature tolerances of everything in the tank, and curbing nuisance algae growth. Of course it helps that the room it's in is climate controlled and that it's so small (9 gallon "cube").

But I'd imagine you could run a reef tank anywhere from around 75 to 85 degrees and be OK...it's stability that counts more than the absolute parameter in many cases, temp being one of the biggies.
 
Aim for 78.

RS250 generally run warmer than most, ESP with T5s in a closed cabinet setup. Make sure you have a temp gauge that's accurate (I periodically check my Apex temp gauge with a handheld device).


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Mine is about 78 all the time. I have LEDs and a vented hood with a small fan. I don't use or need a chiller, just a heater. As others have said stability is the key, not the actual temp, within reason. People have successful tanks anywhere from 76 to 82/83 and sometimes as high as 85. The reason to shoot for the middle is to allow more breathing room if something were to go wrong. If you were close to either extreme it might not take much to go into dangerous territory and hurt or kill livestock and you would definitely have less time for correction.
 
brchapm;873259 wrote: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3664&highlight=temperature+poll">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3664&highlight=temperature+poll</a>[/QUOTE]


Thanks.
I should have done a search for "<span style="color: black">temperature" as well.

I was in a rush and was about to order a chiller and was not thinking too clearly, that early in the morning.
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Like with pH, IMHO, stability is better than one specific number. My tank hangs just under 79 deg. That's the sweet spot where the heaters rarely come on, and room temp doesn't push it above.
 
JeF4y;873473 wrote: Like with pH, IMHO, stability is better than one specific number. My tank hangs just under 79 deg. That's the sweet spot where the heaters rarely come on, and room temp doesn't push it above.

Your tank hangs under a green cloud of algae. Hehehehehe. (Of course algae can't even live in my tank right now).


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mine is 79 at night, 82 at it's peak during the day.... I'll need to get a chiller for my 215
 
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This is my third year with a Red Sea 250. I am installing my new chiller this weekend. My tank has thrived keeping my temperature between 78 & 80. However the last two years I have struggled to keep the temperature below 85 from June until September. At that temperature all of my invertebrates have struggled. I have given up trying and am installing a 1/10 hp. chiller.
 
NUBINATOR;874084 wrote: This is my third year with a Red Sea 250. I am installing my new chiller this weekend. My tank has thrived keeping my temperature between 78 & 80. However the last two years I have struggled to keep the temperature below 85 from June until September. At that temperature all of my invertebrates have struggled. I have given up trying and am installing a 1/10 hp. chiller.

This is my first year with a saltwater tank.
I had (still have) a BioCube 29 tank. It sits in my son's room.

But it's the RSM 250 that has me concerned.
Loads of $$ in corals and such. We lost a clam about a week ago even with all parameters, including calcium, being absolutely perfect. The tank temp went to just over 83 degrees and was bouncing between 80 & 83.

As long as the temps were 79/78, he was fine.

I think the temp killed him.

I know a few of the corals are not doing as well as they were with lower temps.

I just received my JBJ Arctica 1/10 this afternoon.
I'll start installing it in about 10 minutes.
 
You are correct the temperature is your enemy here. At 85 degree's my corals began to suffer. my anemone's became aggitated and began wandering around the tank constantly. Finally an anemone I had for two years died. The only negative was the temperature. I believe the chiller will solve your problems.
 
JDavid;873998 wrote: http://www.ronshimek.com/salinity_temperature.html">http://www.ronshimek.com/salinity_temperature.html</a>[/QUOTE]
^Read!! Full of information, sources cited, not too complicated. When I set up my for real reef tank, I'm going to make sure that all the animals have the same optimal conditions so that they can thrive equally.

An excerpt:
[QUOTE=]Many reef aquaria are set up and maintained in a manner that continually stresses the organisms in them. In general, these stresses are not enough to kill the animals outright, but often the environment is sufficiently unhealthy that the organisms are continually on the edge of disaster. This is probably the reason that many reef animals are considered to be delicate. Most animals, including reef organisms, if maintained with proper basic care and conditions are very resilient and actually are rather hard to kill. This is particularly true of sponges, sea anemones, corals, and most other invertebrates. Nonetheless these groups have the unjustified reputation of being hard to keep.

Unfortunately, it is the poor practices of aquarists that are to blame for the substantial mortality witnessed in many systems. For many years, research scientists have maintained and grown many of these so-called delicate organisms in aquaria, sometimes in flow-through systems, but much more often in closed systems similar or identical to those used by most hobbyists. These scientists are often quite successful at getting the animals to grown, spawn, and reproduce. Yet, in the reef aquarium community, those same animals have the reputation for being difficult to maintain. What is the reason for the difference between research and hobby situations that allows more success for the researcher?

The primary reason for the laboratory success is that researchers tend to set the conditions of their systems as near as possible to the physiological optima of the organisms they are raising. Having raised and kept invertebrates for over 20 years in research systems that were more-or-less typical, I can vouch for the fact that scientists are just as sloppy and lazy as everybody else. They want to spend their time doing just about anything except working to culture animals, so they often arrange their systems to minimize maintenance. The major basic rule of thumb in keeping animals easily is: "Find out what the animal's physiological optimum temperature and salinity ranges are, and adjust conditions to match those optima." While this rule should seem obvious, it is violated by many reef aquarists. Both the temperature and salinity of many reef aquaria are kept near or even somewhat below the lower normal survival limit of physiological tolerance for many of the common animals. This results in substantial and unnecessary mortality. In effect, these mini-reef systems keep the animals just healthy enough that they die slowly.

Some Final Thoughts

The array of new and different organisms becoming available for the mini-reef hobby is due to the biological mining of the areas near the centers of distribution. This is, after all, where the diversity of organisms is greatest. In most cases, we do not know the specific physiological tolerances of these animals. Successful conditions for maintenance, however, can be determined by finding the conditions at the center of the species' distribution. Additionally, there is another rule of thumb that can be applied here. Fresh water is less dense than sea water, and as water stratifies by density, rainfall and diluted sea water tend to float on sea water, and with relatively little mixing at the boundary. Consequently, reef animals from shallower areas (less than 33 ft (10m)) have to be tolerant of lower salinities and can withstand them much better than those from deeper waters. Unfortunately, many common corals or coral reef animals offered in the hobby are now being collected from depths in excess of 100 ft (30 m) and these animals are far less tolerant of inappropriate salinities.



Figure 5. A storm in Chuuk (Truk) Lagoon, September, 1984. Many coral reef areas receive more than 2.5 m (100 inches) of rainfall annually. This means surface waters, down to 10 m (33 ft) or more often have significant and fluctuations in salinity. Most shallow water coral reef organisms are tolerant of transitory and minor changes in salinity.

We often try to maintain a constant environment in mini-reef systems and trust that such an environment will provide the appropriate conditions for organism survival and growth. Constancy of conditions, however, is not particularly important if those constant conditions are wrong. Additionally, fluctuations in the reef system environment are of no concern as long as the fluctuations are not so extreme as to exceed the animals' tolerances. Temperature in lagoonal environments often varies as much as ± 18 ° F (10 ° C) per day around an average value. That average value, however, is often close to the physiological optimum of the species present. While hobbyists should try to maintain the average conditions in their captive environments near the physiological optimum for the organisms involved, fluctuations in temperature and salinity will not cause problems as long as they are within the tolerances of the species involved.

Maintenance of the reef system at optimal conditions is not without problems. Invertebrates maintained near the lower limits of their physiological ranges metabolize and live very slowly compared to normal. This can have its advantages; a dying animal will look good for several weeks or months, and still be effectively dead. It is metabolizing very slowly and, in effect, is almost in a state of suspended animation. Corals, particularly, under these conditions seldom need to feed, and may not even have enough energy to feed. They subsist on their stored energy reserves and byproducts of their endosymbiotic algae, which under normal situations provide nowhere near enough nutrition for adequate growth. Additionally at these low temperatures, the zooxanthellae are also producing significantly less nutrition than they would be doing at higher temperatures (Coles and Jokiel. 1977; Goiran, et al., 1996; Leletkin, et al., 1996;). Coral growth is effectively minimal, and will be hard to detect (Goreau and Goreau, 1959; Goreau, 1961; Goreau, 1977ab; Houck et al., 1977; Highsmith 1979). Additionally, the animals may repair injuries too slowly to prevent infection. After they use the last of their stored reserves, they will die slowly. Of course, they will still be around to enjoy for a period of a few weeks.

Animals maintained near their physiological optimum will need to be fed regularly and adequately for growth. As an example, I maintained a small Heliofungia for an 11 month period during which time it almost tripled in diameter. It was fed the equivalent of 1 to 2 feeder goldfish per day. It eventually succumbed to damage from a predator inadvertently placed in my tank, but was growing and thriving prior to that time.

At normal (for the organism, not the aquarist) temperatures and light conditions, to assume that corals and other animals can get full nutrition from their endosymbionts is to insure that they will not survive (Sorokin, 1990a,b; 1991; For an excellent in-depth and fully referenced treatment of foods and feeding see: Borneman, 2002 -2003 = 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 ). They will need to be fed or the light intensity increased well beyond the normal range for the organisms. Unfortunately, few of these animals are generalist feeders and their survival will depend upon finding an adequate and appropriate diet. Other reef inhabitants will need to be fed more frequently as well. This provides a continuing challenge, but the variety of foods on the market today generally makes finding an acceptable food not too difficult.

Finally, there is the very real problem of the mixed fauna and flora found in many of our systems. Aquarists tend to mix animals from different geographical areas with joyous abandon. This results in a tank full of animals with a variety of ranges of tolerance depending on whether the animal was from the very warm waters of Indonesia or the cool subtropical waters of the northern Gulf of Mexico. A modification an old saying would apply here. As a "Jack of all trades is a master of none," generalized conditions are not good for any tank inhabitant. Maintaining a tank in upper 70 degree F range (24-26 degrees C), will stress any reef inhabitants from the central Indo-Pacific as it is too cold, and as this is near the upper limits for subtropical organisms it will stress them as well. It would be better for all concerned, if aquarists concentrated their efforts in maintaining separate systems for organisms from geographically disparate areas.[/QUOTE]
 
The installation went pretty smoothly.
The only pain was that I routed all of my power cords, probes, ATO, etc...through the accessory port that the chiller plugs into.
So I spent most of my time rerouting everything, drilling a new hole to route the power cords, dodging tornadoes, etc...

Yeah, as Murphy would have it, I was neck deep in the middle of this and the tornado siren goes off, it's raining like it's the end of days (.91 inches in 30 minutes) and while I'm testing it for leaks all I can hear is water (rain water) hitting the side of the house.

But it all worked out pretty well.
The tank has been just under 81 degrees all day.
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/photoplog/images/7119/medium/1_AfterChiller.JPG" alt="" />

I'll drop the temp about .5 degrees each day until I get it between 78 & 79.

So far, I'm loving it.
It's parked behind the tank and I never hear it. :-)
 
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