Rich’s DIY ATO a bunch of other letters

rdnelson

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Decided I would start a thread covering my DIY ATO. I will do my best to document how I did everything and provide as much info as I can. If you plan on following this thread as it progresses, there are a few rules you need to adhere too.

1. You will need to just put up with my occasional lame attempts at humor.
2. If you are tempted to say “You can do all of this much simpler by using a controller or a manufactured ATO” I will give you my response now. (a) It is not in the budget right now and (b) what would be the fun of that?
3. If you see something that will cause me problems down the road, I encourage you to say so. I have thick skin to match my thick head. Feel free to bash away.

In my limited experience, I see two different approaches which would be relatively easy to accomplish. One would be a simple float valve controlling a gravity feed from a reserve source at a higher elevation than the sump. In my mind, the float would eventually bind up due to salt build up or other impediments.

The other method would be to use some sort of float mechanism to activate a switch that would control a small pump. This has the same disadvantage of having the float mechanism bind due to salt build up. It also introduces the possibility of stray currents entering the system endangering the lives of livestock as well as persons.

I have chosen option two but will incorporate some features that will make it easy to keep the float mechanism clean as well as limit the danger to livestock and people. My design will incorporate magnetic switches mounted on the exterior of the sump. Only 9 volts DC will be run though the magnetic switches limiting the possibility of stray currents. The float mechanism will be a small magnet attached to a rubber (or possibly cork) stopper contained within a 3/4" PVC pipe. The PVC pipe will be mounted to allow for easy removal and cleaning.

I have attached a couple of pictures to start. The first picture is some of the materials I will use. At the top, you can see the 8 small magnets purchased at Home Depot for about $1.50 for a pack of 8. The rubber stoppers were about $1.00 each and the corks were about $0.50 each also at HD. The Ice Cube relay and the stab in base were surplus we had around the shop but could be purchased from Radio Shack or Grainger for a few bucks each. This relay has a 24 volt DC coil but will work on 9 volts DC. At the middle left of the picture is a 9 volt DC power supply from an old calculator or something similar. I cut off the end that would plug into the calculator to expose the wires. Across the top are the three magnetic switches (with the red pigtails attached). These were also surplus I found at our shop but I suspect you could pick some up that are similar at Radio Shack. These are Normally Open switches which means when no magnet is nearby the switch will be open (off). A Normally Closed switch would be closed at all times unless a magnet is nearby. In addition to these items I will use left over 3/4" PVC and fittings from an irrigation project I did for our HOA. It sucks when you are the president and the only one in the neighborhood who is handy. But, I get to keep the left over stuff they bought for the project I do for them. Hehehehe I also have leftover acrylic from the HOB Overflow I built which I will use to mount everything.

The second picture is some of the equipment I will use while building this. The third and fourth pictures are the finished control panel.

Edit: OK, so I posted the wrong picture for the second, third and forth ones. That is the equipment I used to do the HOA irrigation project and a control panel I designed and built for a factory we built in Ellijay.
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LQQKs good so far. the mag switchs are used in a lot of places and keeping the power completly out of the sump is a better idea. the one that i saw was a lever relay that pipes floated up to trigger.
 
I have some micro switches that I was going to use but trying to adapt a float to them was not going to be pretty so I decided to go this method. We will see if it works out. :) If I get a chance this afternoon I will try to clean up the schematic drawing I put together so it is easier for people without an electrical background to understand. Once that is done I will post it here.
 
Here is the wiring diagram that I will use.
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I had a question about the wiring diagram PM'd to me. It was a good question and so I thought I would share my reply here so everyone could read it if they wanted.


The wires coming from the top of the sheet are the power source 120 V from a cord plugged into a wall receptacle or something like that. This will feed the top half of the outlet on the hot side and top and bottom on the neutral. By breaking the tab on the side of the outlet (I will post a pic of it when I do that part) the bottom outlet is separate. Once you plug the 9 volt transformer into the top outlet it will put out 9 volts DC on the two wires coming off of it. That 9 volts runs through the magnetic switches (I will sometimes refer to these as floats although they really aren't the floating part) and operates the relay.

Also, coming off of the 120 volt feed, you would run one hot wire to one of the two contacts (switch) on the relay. The other side would run back to the hot side of the bottom outlet. That way when you plug your pump into the bottom outlet it would be turned on and off by the relay.

If you follow the hot wire through the relay you will see that it hits a dead stop at that contact (which means the pump would not run). The only way it can continue to the pump is if that contact is closed which can only happen when the coil of the relay has 9 volts DC present.

Now if you follow the 9 volt wires you will see one goes directly to the coil on the relay (this serves as the return path to the transformer). The other one goes to the highest float switch. The switch has to be closed or nothing works. That is a safety to keep the sump from over flowing in case one of the bottom floats gets stuck. Assuming the top float is closed, the 9 votls continues down to each of the next two floats.

If the water drops enough to close the middle float the 9 volts will continue on to the open contact on the relay and stop there. Nothing will happen at this point.

If the water continues to drop enough to close the bottom float, 9 volts continues on and goes straight to the coil (electro magnet). This will cause both of the contacts on the relay to close. With the contacts closed, the 120 volts will then continue on through the bottom portion of the receptacle to the pump.

Now, once the pump starts to fill the tank again, the bottom float would almost immediately open because water is rising. This would turn the pump off in just a little bit of time. The pump would end up turning on and off all the time and that isn't good. To prevent this, you will notice that the middle float switch is closed at this time. Since the lower float closed for a bit and activated the relay the contact associated with the middle float closed and carried 9 volts to the coil. Even with the lower float opening there is still a path for the 9 volts to the coil unless the water rises high enough to open the middle float.

Hope that makes a bit of sense to you. I would be much easier if we were standing next to each other with the drawing in front of us. :)

Edit: Now if you understand that wiring diagram, here is the one I did for the control panel in the pictures up above. :)
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A) Get a better pic for your avatar, that must have been taking right after acclimation
B) You could write in Japanese and I would understand more...
 
LilRobb;724654 wrote: A) Get a better pic for your avatar, that must have been taking right after acclimation
B) You could write in Japanese and I would understand more...

Oh and by the way, Jenn said you were starving that Scoly and I need to fatten it up. LOL {I think she is just wanting to sell me stuff} hehehehe But yes, that was right after getting it in the tank. I never noticed the snail in the picture until after I uploaded it.
 
rdnelson99;724669 wrote: Oh and by the way, Jenn said you were starving that Scoly and I need to fatten it up. LOL {I think she is just wanting to sell me stuff} hehehehe But yes, that was right after getting it in the tank. I never noticed the snail in the picture until after I uploaded it.

I was starving my fish and shrimp, so they stole the food from the scoly - blame them!
 
Update:

Today I was able to get the electrical portion of this done. Took lots of pictures and did a bench test of it and it works exactly like planned. :) I am too lazy at the moment to write it all up and post the pics but I will do it soon.
 
Finally getting around to updating this thread. Sorry for the delay. The good news is that it has been working flawlessly for a couple of weeks now. Made a couple changes to the design in the process of building it.

Here is a picture of the tab that needs to broken off the receptacle in order for one half to be hot all the time and the other half to be controlled by the float.

Edit: Next are pictures showing the hot wire from the wall outlet (Black) and the switched wire coming back from the relay (Red)

Edit:

Edit:
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Well, apparently I took too long typing out my update and I lost it all. So, let’s try again.

As I was saying………

Here are a couple of pictures which show the tab being broken off of the receptacle to separate the two. This allows me to attach a constant hot wire to one (black) and a switched wire from the relay to the other (red).

Next is a picture of the relay mounted in the junction box followed by the finished product ready for bench testing and mounting to the wooden frame that supports my sump. While testing this in my QT tank I found a couple of changes that had to be made. First, the magnets were not strong enough to go through the PVC Pipe and the tank side. The solution was to attach them directly to the pipe. This causes the magnetic switch to be submerged part of the time but since it is sealed at the factory I feel safe. In addition, should anything go wrong with it, the voltage is only 9 volts DC as opposed to 120 volts AC. While I don’t know what affect that would have on the fish it isn’t enough to hurt a person should anything go wrong.

The next problem I encountered was that rubber stoppers don’t float. LOL Brilliant on my part huh? I next tried the cork stoppers but was not happy with those either. So, I went in search of something better and settled on Foam Marshmallows that I found at Michaels Arts and Crafts. They had to be cut down to move freely inside the PVC pipe but work great.

Next, I realized that the lowest mag switch had enough differential in its operation that I did not need a “Holding” switch (middle float). Once the magnet was close enough to operate the mag switch it would keep it closed long enough to fill the sump a couple inches thereby not short cycling the pump or changing specific gravity in any measureable quantity. The easiest thing to do was to just not plug the middle float into the system.

The last picture is of the float switches mounted in my sump using egg create that spans the width of the sump and an overhanging piece used to help support the wiring. As I said, it seems to be working great after two weeks of operation. We will see how it holds up to the test of time.

I have also attached a video of the bench test for your enjoyment. Hope this helped any of you who want to try your own DIY ATO. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.
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In case you didn't realize, DIY means DO IT YOURSELF!!! LOL jk. You round up the materials and I would be happy to help you build it. Also just realized I forgot to upload the video.

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I am expensive but I have three easy payment terms. Beer, Frags or Equipment. :) I will PM you.
 
hey Rich, LQQKs great and will have to watch video when I get home. as for the lost post... lesson learned. I write all if not most in word and copy/paste it. this way I can put all the links and such in first.
 
be nice to see a part number for the switches you used, and a finished view of the floats and magnets.
I have all the other components laying around including a project box...
 
wbrown;733367 wrote: be nice to see a part number for the switches you used, and a finished view of the floats and magnets.
I have all the other components laying around including a project box...

Wish I could give you a part number on the mag switches but there was nothing on them indicating the manf. or part number. Years ago, my boss bought a ton of surplus at auction. These have been sitting around the shop forever. There are a few more that I am sure he would be willing to sell but I suspect that if Radio Shack doesn't have any they could be found at a place like PLC Direct. PLC Direct carries tons of electrical and process control parts that they distribute around the country. They have the main distribution center in Cumming.

I will try to get a better shot of the finished product but it is pretty tough to get back there. Let me see what I can do when the lights come on today.
 
Thought I would put together a parts list and where to get everything. This includes the harder to find items but I will leave out the mundane stuff that can be picked up at any Home Depot or Lowes.

3 Magnetic Contacts &#8211; Grainger Item #3EXU7 $5.96 each (these are different than the ones I used so you may need three to get the differential you want or it may be like mine where the contact has enough built in that the center &#8220;Float&#8221; is not needed.)

1 - 12 volt DC Relay &#8211; Grainger Item #5CJ06 $9.20 each.
1 &#8211; Relay Socket &#8211; Grainger Item #4KN18 $7.25 each

Several Foam &#8220;Marshmallows&#8221; &#8211; Michaels Arts and Crafts &#8211; Couple bucks for pack of 12

Disk Magnets &#8211; Home Depot &#8211; $2.49 for 8.

9 Volt DC Power Supply &#8211; I used one from an old calculator.

4&#8221; x 4&#8221; x 4&#8221; PVC Junction Box &#8211; Home Depot $9.38 each
PVC Bell Box &#8211; Home Depot $5.79 each

15 Amp Duplex Receptacle &#8211; Home Depot $0.59
Duplex Receptacle Plate &#8211; Home Depot $0.27

Small Appliance Cord &#8211; Home Depot $7.58 (I used an old one I cut off of a washing machine that died a couple months ago)

Misc. Items:
Wire Nuts
Stake On Quick Connects for #14 gauge wire.
Small coil of #14 gauge wire.
Tie Wraps (non-electrical people call them zip ties)
3/4&#8221; PVC Pipe (if I were to do it again I may change to 1&#8221; so the marshmallows didn&#8217;t need to be cut down).
1 &#8211; Romex Connector (attaches the cord to the outlet box)
2 &#8211; 1/2" Chase Nipples &#8211; Joins the two boxes together and protects the float wires where they exit the PVC box.
 
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