Sea cucumbers, how bad are they?

[Jaycen B.]

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">I would like to discuss the potential of sea cucumber toxin “nuking” a tank. I do understand that almost all cucumbers possess toxic substances that can be harmful or fatal to other creatures in our reef aquariums. However I am interested in one species in particular the Holothuria hilla</em> aka the tiger tail cucumber. </span></span>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">I want to thank dawgface for posting this great article in a different thread. </span></span>

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/inverts"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="color: #800080;">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/1/inverts</span></span></span></a>

<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">And from that article:</span></span>

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]“One of the most common deposit-feeding sea cucumbers found in the pet shops these days are the ‘tiger-tail cucumbers.’ This is one of the many cases in the pet trade where a well-known common name is applied to a wide variety of species, many of which don’t act or even look similar.”</span></span>[/FONT]

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]“That is why I usually tell people that the biggest danger of keeping sea cucumbers in our tanks comes from our own negligence rather than from the sea cucumber itself...”</span></span>[/FONT]

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]“The bottom line is that most sea cucumbers won't cause a tank wipe out even if they hit a power head (which as I said, is a pretty easy thing to prevent and really shouldn't be a concern in a well maintained tank).”</span></span>[/FONT]

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]“Well, as I’ve said now several times, there is simply too much variability for me to make any realistic generalizations about the risk of any specific sea cucumber.”</span></span>[/FONT]

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]I stated in the other thread that the tiger tail was safe and did not posses any risk to a reef aquarium, I should have been more clear, for that I do apologize. I think they are safe and have never had a problem with the ones I keep. Do they posses the capability to nuke your tank, I have no idea. </span></span>[/FONT]

<span style="font-size: 13px;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">[FONT=Nobile]I would like to know if anyone has had </span>the [I]Holothuria hilla </em><span style="font-family: Nobile;">nuke their tank. I would also like to hear any first hand experiences about the evisceration process. What happened after it barfed up its guts? </span>[/FONT]</span>

<span style="font-family: Nobile;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">[FONT=Times New Roman]I am sure I will think of something else.</span></span>[/FONT]

 

[grouper therapy]

Not sure Jaycen, I've had two for over 5 years and never had problems. I'm glad I can not tell you more.

 

[hud3339]

Tagging along, I've always been told tigers could not nuke a tank.

 

[Jaycen B.]

Dave, I am glad for that too.

Eddy, that is what I have also been told.

 

[morganatlanta]

I have a tiger tail that hasn't been a problem at all. I did however have a medusa worm for about a week before it found a Koralia and got minced, and have had trouble ever since. I think my copperband ate a piece because he was dead two days later. I added more carbon and did a big water change to try and minimize the impact of the poisons from the worm. Of course, the water big change disturbed the chemical balance, and several of my SPS RTN'ed, probably from a drop in Alk. Then, two healthy nems shriveled and died, and so on it goes. I don't think the tank is entirely stable several months later. Most of the damage, aside from the copperband, may be self inflicted, but the mincing of the medusa worm definitely kicked it off.

 

[elfloyd]

I added three Holothuria Floridana over a year ago. Never see more than one at a time, and never any problems. One got into the overflow and I had to use a net to get him out. Didn't seem to stress him enough to spill his guts.

I know this isn't the cucumber you asked about... but LiveAquaria states the Floridana is toxic too.

 

[dawgface]

<span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: Verdana">I have two in my 200g and must say they are an absolute wonderful addition with regards to the service they provide. Thankfully I have no negative personal experience from them at this point. However based on the article and just a very light Google search it is one of the first things I look for in my daily maintence checks. </span></span>

 

[morganatlanta]

The moral of all that may be that your (over)reaction to one dying might be more likely to nuke your tank, than any toxins put off by the dead thing itself.

 

[Jaycen B.]

Yea, I think I will check my cucumbers daily from now on.

 

[dawgface]

FWIW I believe Marine Design had a tiger tail in their new 400g that nearly wiped the entire display.

 

[Jaycen B.]

DawgFace;721419 wrote: FWIW I believe Marine Design had a tiger tail in their new 400g that nearly wiped the entire display.

If I ever make it over there I will ask about that. I would like to hear what happened.

 

[dawgface]

I could be wrong on the genus, but he had said it was a cuc that killed several of their fish including their prized <span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="color: #000099"><span style="color: black">Vlamingii. He had mentioned he didn't think it was a type that carried toxins, which leads be to believe it was a Tiger Tail.</span></span></span>

 

[jennm]

I've carried, sold and kept Holothuria species for over 10 years, never a problem. Including the "Tiger Tails" that occasionally split.

I have one customer with a "cat turd" Holothuria that eviscerates every once in a while if we attempt to move it away to clean the glass. It's a sticky mess, but the cuke lives on and no ill effects to the tank. I found that putting a fish bag on my hand and letting the bag stick to the "guts" removes them if I can get to them before they stick to anything else besides the sand. It's done that to me 2 or 3 times now over the last few years - twice when we were moving the tank (one time on the first tank move, a second time on the second tank move) - once it was "just because" during a maintenance so now we just try to avoid the thing completely.

Once I got a black Holothuria in a shipment that had eviscerated in the shipping bag. I acclimated it (threw away the 'mess') and it did fine. My friend bought it (she saw it in the bag LOL) - bought it about a week or so after it arrived, and named it, "Ralph".

I had one "cat turd" eviscerate once in the shop when I was attempting to bag it up for a customer.

I've sold probably hundreds of these over the last 11 or so years. None have ever nuked a tank that I've been made aware of.

I typically avoid the bright pink and bright yellow "filter feeder" cucumbers, as well as Sea Apples. Those are more likely to "nuke" if they "puke". I have seen what happens when a Sea Apple goes up against a powerhead... the only thing we managed to save was the powerhead That happened years ago at a shop I used to work at, that sold Sea Apples. Customer came in with entrapped Apple stuck in a Maxijet... she didn't realize that as she was away trying to save the Apple, the rest of her tank inhabitants were dying.

Jenn

 

[Jaycen B.]

Jen, thanks for posting.

 

[gnashty]

I guess the real question is figuring out the ratio of Tiger to Tank it takes to dilute any toxins "if it did happen". I would love to employ the services of a Tiger Cuc in my tank just need to decide wether to risk it or not.

Would a 200 gallons of water volume be enough to dilute the toxins of a 6" Tiger Cuc?

 

[cr500_af]

Has me interested as well... I assume by the nickname, Jenn, that they are not in the least attractive?

 

[elfloyd]

As far as cat turds go... Maybe attractive to another cat turd!

 

[ralph atl]

I researched for a few months before I got one, never saw anyone with a tank crash.

 

[dawgface]

elfloyd;721557 wrote: as far as cat turds go... Maybe attractive to another cat turd!

lol

 

[jennm]

Here's some more info:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cukecompfaqs.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cukecompfaqs.htm</a>

There's all kinds of stuff on WWM. Not sure how current it all is, but there's a ton of info if you search.

Google is a wonderful thing - I remember a conversation on another board, years ago (like.. NINE years ago), where the puke vs. nuke discussion took place.

[IMG]http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f109/pink-knobby-cucumber-question-16545.html">http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f109/pink-knobby-cucumber-question-16545.html</a>

(I even told my sea apple story in that thread!)

"Dark Horge" the poster in that thread, is/was extremely knowledgeable. He was one of my mentors when I first got into the reefkeeping end of things.

Jenn