Should I be concerned about palytoxin?

[sleepyreef]

2 nights ago my 4 year old son picked up a frag of zoanthids. I did not notice until about 10 minutes later. I took him to wash his hands

Last night, about 24 hours after touching me frag, he started to vomit and run a fever.

I believe this is coincidence but after reading about palytoxin it has really got me scared. I do not want my son to potentially die from something that I keep in my aquarium.

Am I overreacting or should I run home and throw away all of my zoanthids?

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[peaches7412]

Well what did he do with the frag? He would have had to eat it, or somehow get into his bloodstream. Just touching them shouldn't do anything really, I touch my zoas all the time moving them and such.

 

[winkkle]

believe that the toxin, should it have gotten into your son, would have shown symptoms in about half an hr. Palytoxin is one of the most potent toxins in the world and there is no anecdote sp? Id make sure he couldnt get to anything in the tank again. If he had a open wound on his hands and touched the zoas it could be potenially lethal. Not trying to scare u but they can be very dangerous to handle. Just be careful and use gloves.

 

[superclown]

Hmm I didn't know this ima go get me some gloved now and to think I uses to touch zoas all the time

 

[winkkle]

I still touch them all the time call me dumb. I also use a claw grabber thing to moce stuff around and keeps my hands dry.

 

[jennm]

There's a nasty stomach bug going around - it could be that... but if in doubt, I'd have him checked by a doctor, and specify what he may have come in contact with.

At the *very* least, I'd suggest calling the Poison Control Center and asking their advice. 800-222-1222 or 404-616-9000

Jenn<span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style="color: #FFFFFF"> Poison emergencies or Poison information call</span></span>

 

[sleepyreef]

I am not sure what my son did with the frag, that is what was disconcerting. The frag was wobbling on its plug so I re-glued it to the plug and left it in a small container on the floor (my big mistake). I was also doing a water change and my son walked in the room and I told him to not touch the frag (my second mistake). I left the room and came back to pour water in the tank. I stepped on something wet while I was pouring my bucket of water into the tank. I thought it was where I spilled some water. After pouring I peered down and noticed I had stepped on my zoa frag.

Anyway I think he just caught a stomach bug, but was looking up palytoxin because my wife said "I hope he didn't get sick from that coral he picked up". After reading about it on the web it seemed like playing russian roulette in my fish tank. It made me wonder if it was really worth it to keep pretty flowers as my son calls them that can kill.

I just learned a lesson. Never leave your coral unattended. Just glad my dog didn't decide to use it as a chew toy, which she usually does with empty plugs.

 

[dine]

since hes been ok for this long i think your looking at something else being the cause but that being said they are very poisonous and should be treated just like the bottle of bleach you keep. make sure he stays far away from it until hes old enough to understand.

 

[coral_hog]

4 years ago, I was put in the hospital after handling zoanthids. I was in the hospital for 4 days hooked up to a respirator to keep me breathing until the toxin left my body. For weeks after I wouldn't go near my tank for fear of getting poisoned again. Shortly after, the center for poison control in Washington DC even called to see if they could have the specimen as the poison in my blood was a strain that they had never seen. To this day, I admire their beauty, but respect them greatly and would never keep them in a tank that I own. I hear people talk about how they frag them all the time without gloves, or without any ill effect, but all it takes is that one time to end up in the hospital like I was, or in a situation even worse.
All I can say is, take extra precautions with these animals because the dangers are real. I know first hand.

 

[ichthyoid]

Nasty stuff, read up and take precautions, including wearing gloves-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin</a>

* I would not advise having these corals anywhere around children/where they may be exposed to the toxin

 

[sewer urchin]

I'm glad to hear that it might be a stomach bug...

the wiki article said that:
<u>Main http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_safety_and_health">hazards</a> chest pains, asthma-like breathing difficulties, tachycardia, unstable blood pressure, hemolysi<u></u>[IMG]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palytoxin#cite_note-deeds-0"></a>s" and "The most common way of exposure in humans is oral"</u>

So I gotta ask, could that happen by eating (or smoking) after handling zoas? Also, could the toxin transfered to the bloodstream by rubbing thew eyes as well? Always heard it was possible didn't know if was a urban legend or not.


Still kinda scary though. If its alright, I would like to share my experiace, kinda like a PSA.
As a father of two young children I've a scare around the tank more then once, it can be a dangerous place. I used to keep my additives under the tank in the sump area -there's. even a nice little shelf too. My littest one would see me add a little something from a bottle. Well one day she wanted to help daddy, so she jimmied the child locks, I've found almost nothing will stop a determied 2 year old, and added a bottle of Reef Complete and a bottle of Reef Carbonate. I was pretty upset, not her-but at myself. I knew that it was castic and can burn eyes and skin- just never thought that she would be that determined and thought it would be OK to keep under there. After that I bought a plastic tool box (the kind at HD) big enough to fit all the stuff- measuring spoons/cups, hyrdometers glass/plastic, syringes and all the other stuff that seems to walk away. I keep it the reef box in the tool room (which is locked) in the basaement. Hope it helps someone else...
Now that I think about it's kinda quite around here - I better go check to see if those new locks are holding up.

 

[ichthyoid]

Sewer Urchin;745447 wrote: I'm glad to hear that it might be a stomach bug...

the wiki article said that:
<u>Main http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_safety_and_health">hazards</a> chest pains, asthma-like breathing difficulties, tachycardia, unstable blood pressure, hemolysis" and "The most common way of exposure in humans is oral"</u>

So I gotta ask, could that happen by eating (or smoking) after handling zoas? Also, could the toxin transfered to the bloodstream by rubbing thew eyes as well? Always heard it was possible didn't know if was a urban legend or not.


Still kinda scary though. If its alright, I would like to share my experiace, kinda like a PSA.
As a father of two young children I've a scare around the tank more then once, it can be a dangerous place. I used to keep my additives under the tank in the sump area -there's. even a nice little shelf too. My littest one would see me add a little something from a bottle. Well one day she wanted to help daddy, so she jimmied the child locks, I've found almost nothing will stop a determied 2 year old, and added a bottle of Reef Complete and a bottle of Reef Carbonate. I was pretty upset, not her-but at myself. I knew that it was castic and can burn eyes and skin- just never thought that she would be that determined and thought it would be OK to keep under there. After that I bought a plastic tool box (the kind at HD) big enough to fit all the stuff- measuring spoons/cups, hyrdometers glass/plastic, syringes and all the other stuff that seems to walk away. I keep it the reef box in the tool room (which is locked) in the basaement. Hope it helps someone else...
Now that I think about it's kinda quite around here - I better go check to see if those new locks are holding up.[/QUOTE]

As for the eating, smoking, etc. after handling. I suggest wearing gloves and a thorough wash up after as well. These are know routes for chemical exposure.

We have had at least one member that I know of who ended up getting a cadaver corneal transplant due to handling paly's/zoa's.

Not to scare anyone needlessly, but the potential consequences are very serious!

 

[snowmansnow]

i doubt its paly toxin if hes still with us

 

[ripped tide]

<span style="font-size: 11px">I eat zoanthids for breakfast.</span>

 

[sewer urchin]

Yuch... Dead's man eye's.

Let me get some gloves.

 

[bulkrate]

Hope your son is on the mend.

I'm not stocking anything particularly exotic, but just as a precaution I always wear a set of disposable nitrile gloves when messing with anything in the tank. Costs next to nothing, gives some peice of mind. And yes, a seriously good washing with industrial grade lava soap's just never a bad plan after sticking your hands/arms into another world.

+ if anyone can recommend a source for disposable ones that come up to the elbows. I've seen the coralife ones at several local stores, but I don't think they're a set of 50 or so, just a set of 2. I'd prefer not to have another piece of tank paraphernalia to wash and take care of after using. ;-)

 

[ichthyoid]

BulkRate;746034 wrote: Hope your son is on the mend.

I'm not stocking anything particularly exotic, but just as a precaution I always wear a set of disposable nitrile gloves when messing with anything in the tank. Costs next to nothing, gives some peice of mind. And yes, a seriously good washing with industrial grade lava soap's just never a bad plan after sticking your hands/arms into another world.

+ if anyone can recommend a source for disposable ones that come up to the elbows. I've seen the coralife ones at several local stores, but I don't think they're a set of 50 or so, just a set of 2. I'd prefer not to have another piece of tank paraphernalia to wash and take care of after using. ;-)

Here ya go, less than $14 for a box of 100-

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2970/Gloves-Arm-Length-Disposable">http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2970/Gloves-Arm-Length-Disposable</a>

They are sometimes referred to as 'Vet' gloves, used for examining large animals (I'm sure you get the picture).

 

[acroholic]

SleepyReef;745137 wrote: 2 nights ago my 4 year old son picked up a frag of zoanthids. I did not notice until about 10 minutes later. I took him to wash his hands

Last night, about 24 hours after touching me frag, he started to vomit and run a fever.

I believe this is coincidence but after reading about palytoxin it has really got me scared. I do not want my son to potentially die from something that I keep in my aquarium.

Am I overreacting or should I run home and throw away all of my zoanthids?

Sent using Tapatalk

Just my opinion, but it does not sound like your son's illness would be related to palytoxin, mainly because a common factor in all the cases of this I have ever read about all the affected people had a quick reaction to the toxin, not a delayed reaction after an entire day.

To get an idea of how bad these guys are, refer to this recent entry in the ReefBuilder's Log. This reefer was gloved and eye protected, but breathed in the toxin because he was using hot water to help in scraping the palys off the rock he was working on.

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/03/04/palytoxin/">http://reefbuilders.com/2012/03/04/palytoxin/</a>

I hope your Son is doing much better!

 

[jennm]

I remember reading a similar story on Reef Central a few years ago. In that instance, the hobbyist took the zoa-filled rocks outside and poured boiling water on them, to kill the zoas, but also ended up inhaling the steam - and the toxin. If I can find the thread, I'll post it. That fellow nearly died too - he didn't but he did mess up his lungs, the last time I read an update, it was looking like he'd have to use a rescue inhaler for life.

Under normal circumstances and with reasonable common sense, these aren't dangerous - it's when people do stuff with them (ie try to kill them, etc.) that bad things happen.

Edit - yep here's the thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083843">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083843</a>

Jenn