Sick Clown Eyes

elphaba

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Over the last few days, my onyx clown's eyes have grown cloudy and are swelling more. I have a 6 line wrasse, pajama cardinal and yellow watchman goby. None of them have these symptoms. The tank is 5 years old, it's inhabitants have been together for over about 2 years. The only thing added last week was a sand sifting star, several nassarius and a turbo.

The clown has been eating until today, now he wants the food, can smell but, not see it. He was able to eat by my holding the cube in the tank for him to find and eat off of but, he cant find what's floating. I give them a varied diet or bloodworms, squid, brine shrimp, mysis, pellet and feed every other day

I do weekly to bi-weekly 20% water changes, sometimes more.
24 gal jbj reef
Parameters:
Nitrites >.01
Nitrates .0
Salinity 1.025
phosphates 0
ammonia 0
pH8.0. and add pH buffer every other week and it has always rested about 8.0
haven't tested calc/alc

Please help me save the clown!

Edit: Pic

https://plus.google.com/u/0/100927218172236509257/posts/H9sUTtRF41T
 
PM JennM. She will help you figure out what is going on and the best treatment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rdnelson99;855654 wrote: PM JennM. She will help you figure out what is going on and the best treatment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ditto or call her at Imagine:

Imagine Ocean Aquarium Services, Inc.
Owner/Manager: Jennifer Myerscough, President (JennM)
Address:
111 Mountain Vista Blvd.
Bldg. A, Suite 140
Canton, GA 30115
Phone Number(s): 770-720-0103
E-mail Address: mailto:info@imagine-ocean.com">info@imagine-ocean.com</a>
Website Address: [IMG]http://imagine-ocean.com">http://imagine-ocean.com</a>

pm:
[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/member.php?u=214">JennM</a>
 
My ears were burning (and I got an email...)

Got a photo? That would help narrow it down.

Jenn

Edit: The pic didn't post for us...

You shouldn't have any nitrite at all if the tank is mature. Are you sure of that reading? What test kit are you using, and how long has the tank been established?

Edit again - I was able to view the picture, it's not very telling for me though. Could be bacterial infection, could be something else. I'd suggest quarantining, getting a better photo... not sure what to do aside from that til I have a clearer view of what it might be. If there's nothing else other than the eye clouding it could be bacterial infection. Antibiotics in the food with Focus for 7-10 days.... but again I'm taking a wild guess right now.

Jenn
 
Thank you Jen,

I'm thinking bacterial too but was hoping for perhaps something more detailed. That's all I can find online. I hope he has an easier time finding antibacterial food in a QT as it didn't work out last night. Guess it's time to go pick up a new QT tank. It's been so long since I had issue, it's a well established mantis tank now... I don't know how well a 5 gal bucket does for QT. Have recommendations for a quick, cheap set up?

Maybe it was nitrates not nitrites as I often get those confused. I recall one was low and one was none. I've done a w/c since then and going on memory from an Optimum Aquarium test last saturday. I'll have it tested again today.

On a good note, one of the eyes looks to have improved somewhat since last night.

You may note from the pics about to be posted, there are algae issues and unhappy coral. I've been fighting it for about 4 months now. Done everything from changing lights, filtration, carbon, phosphate remover, total tank clean out, rock scrubbing and sand sifting, keeping up with water changes, adding extra flow, Ultralife Slime remover... Nothing major shows up on water tests, I even insist in additional tests and the only thing that came up was phosphates, prior to adding phosphate remover 3 months ago. It's really sad because the tank was at it's peak of beauty for about 6 months before this crap began. (I've been in a state of "I love my tank but, so tired of this.") Perhaps it's the giant Kenya tree... I really don't know anymore.

Edit: https://plus.google.com/u/0/100927218172236509257/posts/LSdSJdRTE5F

Edit: Here's a video from November when the wrasse was acting up for the night. Everything was happy and the Kenya Tree was smaller....
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/instantupload/5810798970218392258

Edit: February....

https://plus.google.com/u/0/100927218172236509257/posts/fLbgxdmKq28
 
What kind of water are you using? RO or tap water?

Are you testing for phosphate? That can feed algae.

What is your alk? Low alk can make soft corals angry, and it also seems to lend itself to algae and/or cyanobacter growth.

Any natural light making it to the tank? (Direct sun from a window, etc.)

Seems that this time of year we see an increase in cyanobacter especially, and nuisance algae. Not sure what the cause is as such, and this year so far (knock on wood) hasn't been as bad as last year.

If you can't QT, antibiotics and focus in the food can be safely used in the DT but if the fish can't see to eat, that poses a challenge.

I have an article on my website about setting up a QT. It *can* be done in a bucket but I recommend some sort of filtration. No carbon if you are treating the water proper, but there needs to be some sort of biological or the water will foul.

Second link didn't work - third link shows a really full tank. Probably nothing to do with the clown being sick but corals encroaching on one another can encourage them to put out toxins to protect their own piece of real estate. Do you run carbon? That can help remove some of those toxins but some pruning might help relieve the stress from the corals fighting it out with each other for space.

As for the clown, infection could come from something as simple as a scratch or bite, just like if we have a scratch or cut and it isn't kept clean, we can get an infection.

Jenn
 
What kind of water are you using? RO or tap water?
I pick up RO from the store. I'm transitioning back from mixing my own to purchasing pre-mixed.

Are you testing for phosphate? That can feed algae.
Haven't tested for phosphate in in a couple months, just change out/rinse a bag of phosphate remover every 6 weeks

What is your alk? Low alk can make soft corals angry, and it also seems to lend itself to algae and/or cyanobacter growth.
I haven't tested recently, it had never been an issue but, maybe it is now. I use additives rarely but thought the regular w/c with fresh mixed Red Sea or Instant Ocean was enough.

Any natural light making it to the tank? (Direct sun from a window, etc.)
About an hour or 2 when the sun first rises in the morning. It's about 15 feet from the windows.

Seems that this time of year we see an increase in cyanobacter especially, and nuisance algae. Not sure what the cause is as such, and this year so far (knock on wood) hasn't been as bad as last year.

If you can't QT, antibiotics and focus in the food can be safely used in the DT but if the fish can't see to eat, that poses a challenge.

I have an article on my website about setting up a QT. It *can* be done in a bucket but I recommend some sort of filtration. No carbon if you are treating the water proper, but there needs to be some sort of biological or the water will foul.


Will some LR suffice for bio? I did buy arag alive sand last week with the intention of putting down a fresh layer... Of course that was before the clown's eyes.

Second link didn't work - third link shows a really full tank. Probably nothing to do with the clown being sick but corals encroaching on one another can encourage them to put out toxins to protect their own piece of real estate. Do you run carbon? That can help remove some of those toxins but some pruning might help relieve the stress from the corals fighting it out with each other for space.
I use ChemiPure or ChemiPure Elite (I think regular works better IMO) Anybody want Kenya or xenia? I've had issues finding takers for some time. I traded in a few pieces of frogspawn and hammer awhile, it just made more room for Kenya...

As for the clown, infection could come from something as simple as a scratch or bite, just like if we have a scratch or cut and it isn't kept clean, we can get an infection.
He is rather agressive and the other's don't back down. It is possible

Edit: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/100927218172236509257/albums/posts/5810805605795597218
 
What kind of water are you using? RO or tap water?
I pick up RO from the store. I'm transitioning back from mixing my own to purchasing pre-mixed.

<span style="color: Indigo">Good. That should rule out impurities that way, assuming the store keeps tabs on its TDS.</span>

Are you testing for phosphate? That can feed algae.
Haven't tested for phosphate in in a couple months, just change out/rinse a bag of phosphate remover every 6 weeks

<span style="color: Indigo">I'd have that checked. At least if everything's OK, that rules it out. If there is significant phosphate, then it can be addressed.</span>

What is your alk? Low alk can make soft corals angry, and it also seems to lend itself to algae and/or cyanobacter growth.
I haven't tested recently, it had never been an issue but, maybe it is now. I use additives rarely but thought the regular w/c with fresh mixed Red Sea or Instant Ocean was enough.

<span style="color: Indigo">Instant Ocean doesn't necessarily have enough alkalinity buffers. Being formulated primarily for FO systems, alk doesn't matter much to the fish (as long as pH is stable). With pH at 8.0, that's not bad but if the alk is low the pH has the potential to drop lower. Or it could be swinging. Best way to figure this out is test at the end of the dark period, right before the lights come on - it will be at its lowest then. Then mid-way through the photoperiod, then again right at the end of the photoperiod. At the end it will likely be at its highest. That will tell you if it's fluctuating. If it is, buffering (and making sure alk is stable) will help with that.</span>

Any natural light making it to the tank? (Direct sun from a window, etc.)
About an hour or 2 when the sun first rises in the morning. It's about 15 feet from the windows.

<span style="color: Indigo">Probably not a huge factor in this then.</span>

Seems that this time of year we see an increase in cyanobacter especially, and nuisance algae. Not sure what the cause is as such, and this year so far (knock on wood) hasn't been as bad as last year.

If you can't QT, antibiotics and focus in the food can be safely used in the DT but if the fish can't see to eat, that poses a challenge.

I have an article on my website about setting up a QT. It *can* be done in a bucket but I recommend some sort of filtration. No carbon if you are treating the water proper, but there needs to be some sort of biological or the water will foul.


Will some LR suffice for bio? I did buy arag alive sand last week with the intention of putting down a fresh layer... Of course that was before the clown's eyes.

<span style="color: Indigo">It can suffice - live rock, but if you medicate, make sure you use a rock that you're OK with leaving out of the display permanently. I wouldn't put sand in a QT, and the live stuff isn't as "instant cycling" as the bag claims. (It's convenient as you don't have to wash it etc., but I wouldn't count on it to support livestock right out of the bag.)</span>

Second link didn't work - third link shows a really full tank. Probably nothing to do with the clown being sick but corals encroaching on one another can encourage them to put out toxins to protect their own piece of real estate. Do you run carbon? That can help remove some of those toxins but some pruning might help relieve the stress from the corals fighting it out with each other for space.
I use ChemiPure or ChemiPure Elite (I think regular works better IMO) Anybody want Kenya or xenia? I've had issues finding takers for some time. I traded in a few pieces of frogspawn and hammer awhile, it just made more room for Kenya...

<span style="color: Indigo">I believe those products remove organics, not sure how efficient they are at removing toxins ... maybe somebody else will chime in on that.</span>

As for the clown, infection could come from something as simple as a scratch or bite, just like if we have a scratch or cut and it isn't kept clean, we can get an infection.
He is rather agressive and the other's don't back down. It is possible

<span style="color: Indigo">Even if it scratched itself against a rock, all by itself, infection is possible.</span>
 
Well...

Water re-test revealed nothing notable; all zeroes.: Ammonia, phosphate, nitrite, nitrate, pH 8.2... my salinity was .002 higher than preferred but, the big w/c should fix that. The store said calc/alk was fine but didn't give numbers. It was crazy busy and they were trying to close... Matter of fact we ended up being there til after hours and the store was still packed with customers.

It began looking like ich spots under his jaw later in the day. He's been in QT with Cupertine since last night and the eyes are improving a little (maybe it's optimism). He was so blind, it didn't take any effort to catch him in a glass cup so, he wasn't stressed by the move. Also, created QT from tank water so, no acclimation stress. He behaved differently when I put in a couple drops of Cupertine.

I'm going to follow the daily water change route since I'm not the wealthiest reef keeper and just spent $40 on building a QT. (Airstone, heater, powerhead, thermometer, treatment, 27qt sterilite container).

Did a pretty hefty w/c and scrub down in the main tank, do you suggest changing out a gallon from the main tank for water changes or, unused water (just because the parameters and temp make it easy to reduce acclimation stress). I understand used water will already have waste (which may increase change frequency).

Edit: What is it with people like us? I had to brush off friends to take care of a sick fish. The usual response was, "It's just a fish, if it dies get a new one." There's something about that response which makes me feel I need new friends.
 
Cupramine will treat ich, but not infection. The fish may have both going on - but it's the infection variable that's the most dangerous, IMO. Ich doesn't usually kill a fish, but the secondary infection that comes along after the fact, can and frequently does.

Unfortunately, you can't mix other meds with copper...

I hope he pulls through, keep us posted.

Jenn
 
His eyes are looking better and I don't see parasites.

What do you think, QT 2-4 weeks?

The yellow watchman is wondering where his pushy neighbor went.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/100927218172236509257/posts/FdqcnxFFtEF">https://plus.google.com/u/0/100927218172236509257/posts/FdqcnxFFtEF</a>

He's eating pellets. Not sure if proximity or, returned sight.
 
Eyes are totally clear today and he's back to his little jerk self. He saw fit to stalk and attack the siphon during water change tonight. I guess I'll give him til the end of the week, assuming everyone else stays healthy.
 
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