Siphon break on a ATO system?

[rostato]

I have been using my JBJ ATO since I set up my tank a little over 2 months ago.

Anyway, every time I fill up the 5 gallon bucket with RO/DI water I get a siphon and it almost overflows my sump and lowers my SG considerably.

Basically. As soon as the ATO turns on the lifter pump it creates a siphon so when the pump turns off I get constant water flow until it empties enough water to level the bucket with the sump level.

Any way to control this with a siphon break?

Here is a horrible representation of how mine is set up using paint...

alt="" />

 

[wolfie]

Try to raise the inlet hole above the sump water lvl. THis had work great for me over 2 years now

 

[derek_s]

It may also siphon if the tube is running considerably lower than the ATO reservoir. You might also have tha ato pump up to the tank and into one of the overflows, that way it has no possibility of siphoning (as long as the tube isnt submerged.

 

[rostato]

ares;217109 wrote: could also T the line and run an air hose way up high, gravity will keep it from pumping water out of that line, but itll act as a syphon break when its off.

Now that seems like a good idea.

Yes, my problem is defiantly that the line runs well below the ATO reservoir's level, thats why it is creating the suction.

I don't want the top off water going into the display because I am going to start dosing Kalkwasser soon. That is also why I am super concerned about too much top off getting into the sump. I can deal with a little sg swing but not overdosing of kalkwasser!

 

[skriz]

Anytime the pump is raised above the sump level, you will create a syphon. Can you tap towards the bottom of the RO container?

 

[rostato]

All good info thanks. I tried what you said with the tee and it didnt work so good. So I just lowered the wayer level in the bucket so it would not siphon, and raised the input line to the sump as high as I could. This should work pretty good. I will just have to refill the bucket more than once a week.

 

[skriz]

ares;217172 wrote: wont matter where its tapped. its a closed loop with the water level of the resevior higher than the outlet of the tube. he could just raise the tube above the highest level that the resevior would ever be at. but assuming he doesnt raise the sump with it, he could end up just dumping water into the sump a few feet, lot of splashing on that.

he could raise the sump... if thats possible. he could drop the resevior, again, if thats possible... but if shelving and shovels arent in his plans and just having a waterfall out of the tube into the sump isnt kosher...

T-ing the line and sealing a air hose or just a length of 1/2" PVC go up a few feet should handle it. Id T it at the hump point over the side of the resevior, assuming this isnt a super powerful pump, you shouldnt need but a foot or 2 of vertical line to make sure the water prefers the route to the sump rather than up that line. for total peice of mind, loop the air vent back over to the resevior so worst case if the outlet tube clogs somehow... it would just pump it up the air line and loop back right into the resevior.

Gravity will cause a syphon. If the pump is on the bottom, it has to push UP. If you go up and over, it won't create a syphon.

I have 150 gallons plumbed this way. If it didn't make a difference, I'd have a very wet house.

 

[skriz]

yeah, but I see quite a bit of difference between the water level and where you can put the output. If done right, there won't be any splashing, etc.

 

[rostato]

The I put a tee on there with about 3 feet of line and it just sprayed out. I have tried the pump in MANY different positions. It does not matter where it is, it will siphon...

 

[wolfie]

it not he pump. It the line into the sump. Raise it above the Sump water line then you will be fine

 

[skriz]

ares;217291 wrote: the splashing would be on the output end at the sump. if you have a path down to the sump, you end up with the syphon. his sump is below or equal to the level of his resevior.

you missed the point. I assume he has the output burried so far down is because of the splashing concern.

What type of pump do you have that you're sucking the water up?

 

[rostato]

I am using a Tom Aquatics lifter pump. The line is mounted all the way on top of the sump as high as it can go. It will siphon until the water line is level with the sump no matter what I do...

 

[soarin']

I have these larger diameter (about an inch or so) plastic tubes that came with a water siphon set to "vacuum" tanks. The outlet of the ATO water could up and over into a tube like that, with the larger tube set at an angle into the water.

The angle of the larger tube would let the top-off water "slide" into the sump, and the larger tube would also act as a "shield" to contain any splashing, while providing the height and an air gap to stop any siphoning.

 

[rostato]

anyone have any pics of how theirs is set up?

 

[skriz]

mount a pvc tube in the tank so that the topoff line dumps water into the tube. This way there is no splashing and no syphon.

With that pump, it's hard to believe that there's any splashing anyway, but this method will alleviate the 2 problems.

 

[rostato]

I dont have a splashing problem. I have the inlet hose WELL above the water line and it still siphon's no matter what until the water level in the bucket reaches a certain level. I am assuming that this is because the gravitational force gets to small to push the water out aymore. Or I could be worng:sad:

 

[rickey]

If it is above the water line then it has nothing to siphon. I must be like some others here not understanding what you are trying to say. Post a pic of where your tube goes into the sump and releases water and maybe that will help.

 

[rostato]

here is a pic. It is at the top of the sump. It will siphon untill there is about 4 gallons left in the bucket.

Does that make any sense?

alt="" />

 

[skriz]

Right, your outlet is too low. Raise it and let is drip into the sump. The outlet should be above the water level in the storage container. If it's below that water level, the water will continue to drain until it equalizes.

 

[rickey]

I don't know what your issue is. A siphon generally occurs when the outlet is below the water level. It makes no sense at all that it would continue to let water to flow into your sump when the siphon is as high as yours. Once your pumps starts the water should flow until the pumps stops and then the siphon breaks. You have ample space to cause the siphon break. I don't get it either. I wish we were closer so I could come and look at it with you to try and figure it out. Maybe one of your local geniouses can come by and take a look at it. The only thing you can do that may help is lower the pump so that is is lower than your sump level.