So are we causing havoc to our reefs?

I try and do my part (small unsafe car that gets great mileage) and all of my corals were aquacultured. And I don't want to hurt any more that we have to (except for maybe crows, but that is another story:)

But... That being said... 99.99 percent of all the species that have ever lived on the earth are extinct.

It is a big place (the earth), with lots of stuff. The weatherman (using some of the fastest computers on the planet) can't tell me if it is going to rain next week. Can't prove cooling, can't prove warming. But we can prove that the weather is changing. La ti freaking da. Boy that is a surprise! Got a puppy that can do the same thing.

For five straight years. Meteroligist (sp) have predicted a higher than normal hurricane seasons (which I watch very carefully as I am in the disaster recovery business). They have been wrong for 5 straight years. Dead wrong. this may been the 5 calmest seasons since the weather has been monitored. Random chance would have gotten it right at least twice. However, global warming money may have not been available...

I'm usually the one lone conservative. I just follow the money...

Lay it on me :argue:

my $.02 worth

Oh, to the sponsors... I'm still going to buy your stuff :)
 
johnqx4;577638 wrote: I try and do my part (small unsafe car that gets great mileage) and all of my corals were aquacultured. And I don't want to hurt any more that we have to (except for maybe crows, but that is another story:)

But... That being said... 99.99 percent of all the species that have ever lived on the earth are extinct.

It is a big place (the earth), with lots of stuff. The weatherman (using some of the fastest computers on the planet) can't tell me if it is going to rain next week. Can't prove cooling, can't prove warming. But we can prove that the weather is changing. La ti freaking da. Boy that is a surprise! Got a puppy that can do the same thing.

For five straight years. Meteroligist (sp) have predicted a higher than normal hurricane seasons (which I watch very carefully as I am in the disaster recovery business). They have been wrong for 5 straight years. Dead wrong. this may been the 5 calmest seasons since the weather has been monitored. Random chance would have gotten it right at least twice. However, global warming money may have not been available...

I'm usually the one lone conservative. I just follow the money...

Lay it on me :argue:

my $.02 worth

Oh, to the sponsors... I'm still going to buy your stuff :)
Click to expand...

I'm right with ya John. You know why the meteorologists have been wrong about the hurricane seasons? Their models have taken into account global warming estimates. Which have turned out to be wrong. Don't hear that in the news, do ya? One of the top guys at NOAA was ousted because he said that all the models were wrong. Didn't hear about that either. I'm glad to see someone else bring up this issue.
 
one of the reasons I got in to breeding fish was to try and do a little bit to give back. I focused my attention on Bangaii Cardinals, a species that is fairly easy to culture and reduce the need for wild caught. I started to expand in to clowns and gobies before I had to shut down. There are a lot of ARC friends with some of my capitive breed cardinals in their tanks and hopefully some of those will continue to spawn and spread. It's not much but at least it's something.
BZ
 
brianjfinn;577642 wrote: I'm right with ya John. You know why the meteorologists have been wrong about the hurricane seasons? Their models have taken into account global warming estimates. Which have turned out to be wrong. Don't hear that in the news, do ya? One of the top guys at NOAA was ousted because he said that all the models were wrong. Didn't hear about that either. I'm glad to see someone else bring up this issue.
Click to expand...


you have a source for this?
 
brianjfinn;577642 wrote: I'm right with ya John. You know why the meteorologists have been wrong about the hurricane seasons? Their models have taken into account global warming estimates. Which have turned out to be wrong. Don't hear that in the news, do ya? One of the top guys at NOAA was ousted because he said that all the models were wrong. Didn't hear about that either. I'm glad to see someone else bring up this issue.
Click to expand...

It appears I misspoke. The information I was going off of in the previous statement is a couple years old. Here's a link to an article by the New York Times that's more up to date on the issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/science/earth/30warming.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/science/earth/30warming.html</a>

It appears that climatologists are still using global warming models, while meteorologists, who predict more short-term weather patterns, are split on the issue.

Misu, I'm still trying to find the information I stated in my PM, and I'll get it to you.
 
a>
 
IVEgotCRABS;577597 wrote: rather than spend the clubs money on projects like building a tank for someone
why not put the money to a good cause like the one you guys are discussing now
new idea for a project maybe?
Click to expand...


:up:
 
Global warming is a 100k yr cyclical event....unless you are the person who created the Internet....
 
It's unfortunate that climate change and Global Warming are even linked to politics at all.
 
Let's get back on track.........................The reefs are near the coasts, so we know that deforestation, sewage, silt are causing havoc. We already know that Crown of Thorn Stars have destroyed a bunch, along with various weather patterns that are either a) caused or b) not caused cause by humans..............

The question is:
Are we causing more detriment to the reefs than helping?
 
Again,

According to the documentary I saw on Animal Planet, coral tops the list of illegally smuggled animals. Much of this coral heads to the U.S. to supply this hobby.

Just one example

http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127638.html">http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic127638.html</a>


An excerpt;
A federal customs inspector caught a whiff of ocean emanating from a shipping container one day in 2007 and looked inside. A manifest listed the cargo -- shipped from the Philippines to a Woodburn aquarium supply business -- as rock, broken gravel and coral sand. But it looked more like chunks of coral.
Customs officials sent the container back to the Philippines, saying it wasn't properly fumigated. But they kept one bag for examination by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which found it not only held coral, but endangered coral from the Philippines -- a product banned for export since 1977.
Thus began an international smuggling case culminating in this week's arrest of Gunther Wenzek, the 66-year-old owner of Cora Pet in Essen, Germany.
Wenzek appeared in federal court in Alexandria, Va., on Friday on a nine-count indictment that accuses the German national of smuggling; violating the Lacey Act, which prevents the import of wildlife in violation of any foreign or domestic laws; and violating the Endangered Species Act.
"We will not allow criminals to profit from the illegal devastation of the world's coral reefs," Oregon's U.S. attorney, Karin Immergut, said in a written statement. "We will scour the globe for those responsible for this devastation and bring them to justice."
Experts say the looting of coral reefs has serious consequences for fish and invertebrates, which nurse, feed and hide in them. Reefs also act as breakwaters, protecting coastal communities against dangerous storms and surging seas.
After Wenzek's 2007 shipment of coral fragments failed to reach the Woodburn aquarium supplier, he instructed the Oregon importer to hide the nature of his next shipment, the indictment alleges. The importer, unnamed by the government, was told to use tariff numbers identifying the cargo as limestone products.
 
peachyreef;577493 wrote: And yes global warming is happening (Im studying it in college now)
Click to expand...



I'd like to point out that over the history of this planet billions of species have both been created and destroyed (most, long before man ever contributed to any global climate changes)..

the reality is that we have been logging the temperature of this planet for only (at most) a couple hundred years..

it's pretty darn arrogant of man to believe that he understands things like shifts in global temperature..

there are THEORIES as to what dropped us into the last ice age, and what brought us out of it.. but the reality is that man had nothing to do with it... and IT WILL happen again (and man wont be able to stop it)

you show me someone complaining about global warming, and I'll show YOU someone who wants to impose his beliefs on another person using government as the enforcer..

[/rant]
 
AndrewG;577767 wrote: If there's money involved it gets political.
Click to expand...


That's unfortunate because it seems politics muddys up </em>the issue, and as demonstrated in this very thread, it's difficult to discuss one without the other.

The Polar Icecap shrinking in the last 20 years;

Fact?
Fiction?
Man Made?
Natural Occurrence?
 
Dakota9;577774 wrote: That's unfortunate because it seems politics muddys up </em>the issue, and as demonstrated in this very thread, it's difficult to discuss one without the other.

The Polar Icecap shrinking in the last 20 years;

Fact?
Fiction?
Man Made?
Natural Occurrence?
Click to expand...



yes.. it's been shrinking (on average) ever since the last ice age...
 
Rbredding;577773 wrote:

you show me someone complaining about global warming, and I'll show YOU someone who wants to impose his beliefs on another person using government as the enforcer..

[/rant]
Click to expand...


That statement is not true.

Although I don't complain about global warming, I do believe it's occurring, and at least partially at our hand.

Working on the principle that matter can not be destroyed, only changed, then we have to believe that millions of barrels of crude oil have been taken from deep within the earth and released into the atmosphere in a gaseous form. Personally, I think there's a price to pay for that.

I've been posting in this club for years and I've never once sounded off on my beliefs, and even now I'm not pushing them onto anyone else. They are mine, I own them, not you. As far as using government to enforce my beliefs, well, I have as little or as much belief in my government as the next person.
 
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/the_sky_is_falling_or_revising_the_nine_times_rule/">http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/the_sky_is_falling_or_revising_the_nine_times_rule/</a>

You have to click the links within the article....it is very long and complex....and there is a very good chance you won't comprehend it the first time....not in a mean way....but in a it's freakin confusing way....
 
rolo65;577786 wrote: http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/the_sky_is_falling_or_revising_the_nine_times_rule/">http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/the_sky_is_falling_or_revising_the_nine_times_rule/</a>

You have to click the links within the article....it is very long and complex....and there is a very good chance you won't comprehend it the first time....not in a mean way....but in a it's freakin confusing way....[/QUOTE]


I clicked on the first link in the article and it locked up my computer and had to reboot. I'll try again some other time.....
Click to expand...
 
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