SPS and Calcium Reactor

[cameron]

SuAsati;96982 wrote: you stated alk is an issue, but never answered why it is an issue....

Straight out of ReefKeeping:

Another common problem when setting up a calcium reactor is getting a correct balance between calcium and alkalinity. A common complaint is as follows:

"I have an alkalinity of 3.5 mEq/L (10 dKH), but my calcium level is only 320ppm. I have tried adjusting the reactor, but cannot get the calcium level to rise without the alkalinity going too high."

A calcium reactor may be described as a 'balanced' calcium / alkalinity additive. Basically, this means that it adds calcium and alkalinity to the tank in the same ratio as is used by our corals during the process of calcification. Simply put, it is not possible to change the calcium level without the alkalinity being affected also in a defined manner.

As an example, for each 1 mEq/L alkalinity (2.8 dKH) the calcium reactor adds 20ppm calcium. If your tank starts out with 3 mEq/L alkalinity (8.4 dKH) and 320 ppm calcium, and you raise the alkalinity to 4 mEq (11.2 dKH) using the calcium reactor, then the calcium level will only increase to 340 ppm!
Natural seawater at 35 ppt salinity typically has around 2.5 mEq/L alkalinity (7 dKH) and a calcium level of 410 ppm, but I personally aim for around 3 mEq/L alkalinity (8.4 dKH) and 420 ppm calcium, and many others prefer even higher levels. Once you have decided on the levels, it is a useful idea to map where the calcium and alkalinity levels are (Bingman 1998) and then perform any corrections needed to get them back on target.

If the calcium level needs boosting, then I recommend using an additive such as calcium chloride. One gram of an anhydrous calcium chloride product (such as Turbo Calcium) will raise the calcium level by 360 ppm in 1 litre of water (95 ppm in 1 gallon of water).

If the alkalinity level needs boosting, then sodium bicarbonate can be used. One gram will raise the alkalinity by 12 mEq/L (34 dKH) in 1 litre of water (3.2 mEq/L (9 dKH) in 1 gallon of water).

In both cases, I recommend making changes slowly, rather than adding them all at once.

It is also worth noting that you may have difficulty achieving natural calcium and alkalinity levels if your salinity is less than natural seawater (35ppt) (Holmes-Farley 1998) or if you have a deficiency in magnesium (Bingman 1999, Holmes-Farley 2001). A solution to magnesium depletion, used by some aquarists, is to include a few teaspoons of pure dolomite in the calcium reactor where it can dissolve, adding magnesium to the tank (Bingman 1997).

I personally had to dose mag and baking soda to keep mine inline. I could get the calcium just right but my alk was out of balance and vice versa. I could never find a good balance in my tank.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: All reactor are equal in principle, the second chamber is there to use up the additional CO2 that is escaping.... Frankly saving CO2 is the least of anyones concernd, it costs 20 bucks to refill a 10lbs bottle and lasts for months....

A second chamber will utilize CO2 more effectively but it will also raise the pH of the effluent and increase the calcium of the effluent. It does serve more than one purpose and can help prevent a tank problem from a probe malfunction.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: Kalkwasser drip isn't necessary...

It is never necessary but I found since I had alk and pH problems dripping in kalkwasser resolved those issues. Many advanced setups use a control to put kalkwasser in when the pH starts to fall to offset any effluent pH issues.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: It probably wasn't dialed in right.... I haven't touched my reactor in 4 months, except to watch and make sure the effluent is flowing at the right drip rate... and yes I have the MRC one... In a good growing system the only thing you need to adjust when your utility goes high (usually every month or so) is the bubble count, and if you invest in a good controller it is a breeze.... which you still will hae to do with 2-part....

I am not saying a reactor isn't better what I am saying based on the original post is that one you don't NEED a reactor and two you may find yourself dosing anyway. It won't be as big a deal, but I was dosing and I had several people come over and take a look as well as a long conversation with Andy about it. Some tanks that have a high growth rate are just hard to dial in... mine was one of them.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: If any serious SPS keeper want to use two part solution, They should invest in a very good dosing pump, when I checked the only thing I was ready to buy was the grotech one... you need tobe able to pump as little as 1ml at a time so you can spread it out, Once your SPS takes off 1 or 2dKh usage a day is extremly possible, B-Ionic will requite 100ml per 100gal of each part, you will have to spread it out over the day....

While I recommend a higher end dosing pump such as a LiterMeter, you can use an aqualifter and dilute the additives to get more precise measurements.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: Using this in your top off water will be even more problematic as your top-off rate changes depending on the temp difference and flow and you will ahve to keep calculating the amount over and over...
And on top of that, you will have to account for the sodium Chloride by product which over time will increase your sg, either do water changes to nullify thisor you need to start replacing equal amount of water with No Nacl salt, doubt we even get those here....

You make dosing two part sound really difficult. It is really easy and there isn't that much to it. I personally still do it manually about once a week and I just drop it right in the tank. Kalkwasser in my top off does most of the work.

SuAsati;96982 wrote: The easiest is the reactor, that's why so many use it.... cheapest is just an added advantage.... I was on two part route for over a year, and finally decided to go the reactor route and I am glad I did....

Most of the people I know still dose two part. Again I am not saying it is better quite the reverse actually. What I am saying is you can do an SPS tank quite successfully without a reactor, it isn't that big of a deal, it isn't that hard to automate and a calcium reactor in some setups still have to dose. Pros for a reactor are hard to beat and if you have the 500 or so bucks to buy one, it will pay for itself in the long run. However like in my previous setup with an overstocked SPS/Clam tank (and I had a monster clam), I was fiddling with my reactor every 2 weeks to keep Ca levels correct and as soon as you touch the Ca levels you have to start watching the Alk. Another minus is the slight possibility in a single probe setup that the probe will fail and cause a pH problem in the main tank. I dose Seachem products that are pH balanced. Other than a storm in my tank it is pretty hard to overshoot the pH or the Ca... alk is a bit different.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Cam, I think I agree with suasati- the alk and pH are unrelated in this case. The pH is low for the reactor effluent but the alk is astonomical. For example, when I was just running my reactor, my system pH did drop a little more than I would like, but my alk was through the roof. I use a kalk reactor now to comabt that and bump my calcium a bit more, but the alkalinity want the issue.

Alkalinity sure plays a role in buffering the pH, but I think in this case, the pH is low not because of lax buffering, but because of execssive acidic compound (CO2). But I may be wrong on that.

 

[suasati]

jmaneyapanda;97058 wrote:
Alkalinity sure plays a role in buffering the pH, but I think in this case, the pH is low not because of lax buffering, but because of execssive acidic compound (CO2). But I may be wrong on that.

You are not wrong.

 

[suasati]

Cameron

that article exactly says what I am saying, there is no issue with reactors and alk, it is the initial setup, if your initial setup is out of balance then you will remain there, cause the reactor supplies Ca and Alk in the same proportion as it is being utilized.... it is not an issue with the reactor but an issue with where you started from.

I personally had to dose mag and baking soda to keep mine inline. I could get the calcium just right but my alk was out of balance and vice versa. I could never find a good balance in my tank.

Again if you started right you won't run in to this issue with a reactor....

A second chamber will utilize CO2 more effectively but it will also raise the pH of the effluent and increase the calcium of the effluent. It does serve more than one purpose and can help prevent a tank problem from a probe malfunction

Yes pH increases in the second chamber, why? cause that is what happens when the media dissolves trying to give buffer to the water..... but it is not just the calcium that increases, alk increases along with it, one cannot go up without the other also going up in the right balance in a calc reactor.... and there is no other purpose for the second chamber other than to increase the effluent pH and use up more dissolved CO2...


The rest is just preference.....

 

[jessezm]

Big D;96673 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Jesse, where are you picking up dolomite?..</span>
<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"></span>
<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Big D</span>

I got some from a fellow reefer (who's no longer reefing). I think he got it straight from a quarry. I need more now, and was thinking of ordering some ZeoMag.

 

[drnecropolis]

Big D;96673 wrote: <span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Jesse, where are you picking up dolomite?..</span>



<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Big D</span>

Found this for ya dave...

 

[tsunami]

I didn't know that I was asking such a ruff question. I think I'm just going to add centrum to the tank because that has all you need from A to Zinc. Do I need a two part pump or can I just add each part in every day?

 

[suasati]

Tsunami;97121 wrote: I didn't know that I was asking such a ruff question. I think I'm just going to add centrum to the tank because that has all you need from A to Zinc. Do I need a two part pump or can I just add each part in every day?

You didn't.... there was just a small misconception with CaRx which I hope has been straightened out. As for centrum it comes bundled into one, so I doubt you need a two part pump..

 

[tsunami]

Has anybody tried the

 

[cameron]

Invest in a good calcium reactor and equipment related. These things can nuke your tank or leak effluent all over the place. Not saying it is common but it can happen and I wouldn't take the risk. Do it right the first time is my motto.

 

[tsunami]

Well what reactor do you recommend?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Cameron;97296 wrote: Invest in a good calcium reactor and equipment related. These things can nuke your tank or leak effluent all over the place. Not saying it is common but it can happen and I wouldn't take the risk. Do it right the first time is my motto.

ditto. with every piece of equipment.

 

[schwaggs]

Mg must be added when using the 2 part solutions or a CA reactor so that aspect is a wash. I highly reccomed the Mg formula mentioned in the 2 part solution article here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php</a>

I tried the 2 part solutions several years ago when Bionic first became popular. I could never get my CA and Alk where I wanted them. I could get one in the range but the other would be too low. It was really frustrating.

A few years ago, I switched to a CA reactor. I setup a pH controller to administer the CO2 (makes life easier) and perstaltic pump [IMG]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump</a> to controll the flow through the reactor. To tune the CA addition rate, I simply raise or lower the pH on the pH controller. One setting tunes it all. I use one $15 tank of CO2 every 24 months and 16 pounds of ARM media per year (+-). Every month I measure CA, Alk and Mg and adjust as needed. I go MONTHS without adjusting or adding a thing.

Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, DO NOT use a CA reactor or 2 part additives to adjust your levels, they are supposed to be used to maintain levels.